Thread: Everybody forgot about Us?

Welcome to ALIPAC, HispanicGuy! Hope you're enjoying your thread....sure has taken a few twists and turns. But hey, not very many threads here get a full-fledged late-night soliloquy.

Daedelus It's thinking like yours that our opponents have used to claim we are racist and only wish to have everything not European erased from the United States. Your line of thinking scares me and reminds me of the same line of thought used by certain individuals during the mid 1930s. A line of thought that was thoroughly rejected by America during World War II. In fact, it's almost a carbon copy - I know my history sir.

I for one am glad you are in the minority.

Originally Posted by Americanpatriot

Speak your self

I am.

Welcome Hispanic Guy. There are people here of all races, ethnicities, political parties, etc. We all have one thing in common-we put America first. Thank you for putting America first and being a patriot.
I have said this before and I know many agree, but I feel so angry for the people who have come here legally. How dare our elite senators do this to them. They played by the rules and are now being punished for doing so. It makes me sick.

Keep faxing and calling your senators and if you can senators from around the country as well. There are a lot of great resources and minds on this board. We can win this fight!

Thank you Hispanic_Guy. Yea, there are a lot of Americans of Hispanic heritage who understand the problem here with Bush's plan and are right with us.

Let's face it, new legal Hispanic immigrants will be hurt by this. Americans will be thinking, "Oh, did you get amnesty too?!!"

This is not fair to anyone. Do things right President Bush for the sake of everyone!

Let us help Mexico dig themselves out of the corruption which is the real problem, (I"m not sure how, but he could get the answers as to how) and help and encourage them to become a better country.

Instead President Bush wants to flood America with Mexico's problems as the solution.

Well, the American people say NO to that plan. Absolutely NOT, President Bush. Stop embarrassing yourself and our nation and stand up and do what you need to do.

If he would do what is right, (enforce our existing laws, do not attempt amnesty in any disguise), I would forgive him a certain amount and move forward.

The problem is I cannot trust him at all anymore. I now feel that if I dare believe him, I'm setting myself up for pain and anger. It cannot possibly be that he is not scheming some plan, if I believe what he says, I'm going to end up shocked again, hurt and then angry.

He has really hurt the American people. I mean REALLY HURT. That is why we are so angry. He just doesn't get it. We need to see, believe and know that his loyalty is to the citizens of this country. Illegal Aliens are NOT the citizens of this country. They are people who have decided that they will live in the U.S. for a variety of different reasons, with or without our government's permission.

Nothing could be worse for the American people than to have a president who does not put his foot down to this activity which is dangerous and extremely disrespectful to the American people.

WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!! WE ARE PUTTING OUR FOOT DOWN SINCE HE CAN'T, WON'T OR JUST PLAIN REFUSES TO.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Originally Posted by Americanpatriot

Speak your self

I am.

Glad I got your attention...

Originally Posted by VaMinuteMan

Daedelus It's thinking like yours that our opponents have used to claim we are racist and only wish to have everything not European erased from the United States.

It's actually your sort of thinking that will ultimately destroy this country - America has no essential identity - being an American is nothing more than a legal category (one that is for sale). That explains why 1.) immigrants reject assimilation in favor of their own richer cultures and 2.) well over half the population can't be bothered to get all that concerned about America's immigration problem. Such a vacuous, thin, meaningless sense of identity isn't worth preserving or adopting. It isn't worth putting up with reflexive accusations of "racism, bigotry, hate, etc." either. See above.

Conservatives like you harp on endlessly about "illegal aliens" not having the proper paperwork. That simply begs the question: why not have them pay a fine, and then give them the proper legal papers? The obsessive conservative concern with legalism reduces the immigration issue to a right-wing circle jerk. It makes "comprehensive immigration reform" sound reasonable to a large cross-section of the progressive, non-conservative population. "Racism" has nothing to do with matter. I'm not interested in which races are "superior" or "inferior." That's not the issue. I'm more than willing to grant that Mexico has the "superior" immigration policy; America the "inferior" one. It is hard to believe whites are "superior" when they allow other populations to walk all over them. If Mexicans want to be the superior "Bronze Race," that's fine by me. I'm not chastising Hispanic immigrants at all. Unlike conservatives, I can understand and appreciate many of their concerns.

Your line of thinking scares me and reminds me of the same line of thought used by certain individuals during the mid 1930s. A line of thought that was thoroughly rejected by America during World War II. In fact, it's almost a carbon copy - I know my history sir.

That's true. In the aftermath of WW2, America was redefined as a "proposition nation." Our immigration problem dates from those years. Complain all you want about the evil racists (i.e., Eisenhower and "Operation Wetback," the Founders being slaveowners), but whatever their faults, America didn't have an immigration problem under their watch.

I for one am glad you are in the minority.

I for one will enjoy watching the imminent demise of the conservative-led immigration restrictionist movement. Checking my watch, you people have three days to pull off a miracle. Then it is our serve.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Originally Posted by VaMinuteMan

Daedelus It's thinking like yours that our opponents have used to claim we are racist and only wish to have everything not European erased from the United States.

It's actually your sort of thinking that will ultimately destroy this country - America has no essential identity - being an American is nothing more than a legal category (one that is for sale). That explains why 1.) immigrants reject assimilation in favor of their own richer cultures and 2.) well over half the population can't be bothered to get all that concerned about America's immigration problem. Such a vacuous, thin, meaningless sense of identity isn't worth preserving or adopting. It isn't worth putting up with reflexive accusations of "racism, bigotry, hate, etc." either. See above.

Conservatives like you harp on endlessly about "illegal aliens" not having the proper paperwork. That simply begs the question: why not have them pay a fine, and then give them the proper legal papers? The obsessive conservative concern with legalism reduces the immigration issue to a right-wing circle jerk. It makes "comprehensive immigration reform" sound reasonable to a large cross-section of the progressive, non-conservative population. "Racism" has nothing to do with matter. I'm not interested in which races are "superior" or "inferior." That's not the issue. I'm more than willing to grant that Mexico has the "superior" immigration policy; America the "inferior" one. It is hard to believe whites are "superior" when they allow other populations to walk all over them. If Mexicans want to be the superior "Bronze Race," that's fine by me. I'm not chastising Hispanic immigrants at all. Unlike conservatives, I can understand and appreciate many of their concerns.

Your line of thinking scares me and reminds me of the same line of thought used by certain individuals during the mid 1930s. A line of thought that was thoroughly rejected by America during World War II. In fact, it's almost a carbon copy - I know my history sir.

That's true. In the aftermath of WW2, America was redefined as a "proposition nation." Our immigration problem dates from those years. Complain all you want about the evil racists (i.e., Eisenhower and "Operation R******R," the Founders being slaveowners), but whatever their faults, America didn't have an immigration problem under their watch.

[quote:762liwaq]I for one am glad you are in the minority.

I for one will enjoy watching the imminent demise of the conservative-led immigration restrictionist movement. Checking my watch, you people have three days to pull off a miracle. Then it is our serve.[/quote:762liwaq]

Your Soliloquy is boring! ho...hum...bla...bla...bla

Daedalus you are certainly entitled to your opinion - I just happen to believe most strongly that people like you hurt us more than help us. Maybe you should check the large words at the top of this web page because obviously you aren't in agreement with them. We're not anti-immigrant here, we're anti ILLEGAL immigrant.

If you want to just stir up trouble that's fine, I'm sure a mod will be more than happy to play tag with you. As for me, I'm done with your diatribes.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I for one will enjoy watching the imminent demise of the conservative-led immigration restrictionist movement. Checking my watch, you people have three days to pull off a miracle. Then it is our serve.

Not everyone here has plugged into what you refer to as "the conservative-led immigration restrictionist movement", nor is everyone here a clear-cut Republican.

While I've enjoyed reading what you have shared here, and can agree with some of the statements you have offered, it is time to now ask why you are spending so much time on your eloquent soliloquy to a group that you refer to as "the conservative-led immigration restrictionist movement" unless we, as a cohesive group, have given you cause for concern?

First, the term "native" -- look it up. This word references that which is inborn or innate, rather than "acquired", or, more plainly said, INDIGENOUS. The people who were indigenous to America were NATIVE INDIANS. They themselves migrated into America from other lands, but they were here prior to the settling of early America. Originally called "savages" or "Indian", the terms were changed to "native Americans" because it is more , ahem, politically-correct. Indians are now termed "native Americans" because America needed the noted separation between those who were indigenous to the land and those who "settled" on the land afterwards. Hence, the people who "settled" into America were the first people who arrived in ships and stayed (lawmakers and new citizens), coming from wherever they sailed from.

Those who "migrated" were the people who followed known routes, ie port-to-port. People who did, in fact, migrate to America included Indians at one time, but their migration preceded the American settlements. Those who are referred to as "immigrants" are people who have migrated and do not include the "indigenous" people. Migrants/immigrants are America's acquired people.

Words are important and some are careful how they are used. Some of us dislike or take offense to being called "natives" in contemporary studies because it is incorrect terminology. Native Americans are Indians who are also "Americans". Being a member of DAR with family roots that trace back into the early 1700s, I would still never refer to myself as being "native". Because I am not.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

America is a nation, not a geographic location. Indian tribes who fought against Americans in the American Revolution have no right to be described as "Native Americans." Rather, they were foreigners; sovereign peoples distinct from Americans, analagous to the Russians or the Chinese. That's how they were treated by the U.S. federal government for well over a century.

At the time of the Rev. War, Indians were still the "natives" to the region, despite the fact they were living in hostile territory. Were Indians "Americans"? No, they were Indians and owed no allegiance to the government that was trying to overpower and overrun their tribal Nation. They were a sovereign people with tribal connections, but were not "foreigners" per se. They did not align with the government that was being imposed upon them --I fail to see how you can compare Indians/"natives" to Russians or Chinese.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

"European-Americans" seem to be capable of nothing more than thinking of themselves as atomized individuals and spouting platitudes about "law and order." Unsurprisingly, the "European-American" percentage of the American population is drastically shrinking, and other more assertive groups are displacing them. A century from now when European-Americans are a small minority in a Spanish-speaking, Brazilian-style North American Union, our descendents will slap themselves and wonder what the hell their ancestors were thinking. Oh yeah, they were conservatives!

One of the biggest mistakes ever made was to permit the ultra-liberal machine to push the agenda of "equality" because it is simply not attainable given the methodologies employed by our government system. By implementing artificially propped instruments like "affirmative action" and welfare-based programs, the "European-Americans" gave more away than they ever realized. Unfortunately for those who still push that agenda, the quota-programs and slanted "opportunities" for the "under priviledged" have been under fire because the mindset has already changed. Ya think we're so stupid we'll do this again for yet another enslaved large population? This is not racist -- it is about playing fairly, without "handicaps". "Survival of the fittest", as Darwin would point out.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

That's true. In the aftermath of WW2, America was redefined as a "proposition nation." Our immigration problem dates from those years. Complain all you want about the evil racists (i.e., Eisenhower and "Operation R******R," the Founders being slaveowners), but whatever their faults, America didn't have an immigration problem under their watch.

Sorry, Daedalus, you went way off on this one. The "proposition nation" is such an overplayed myth.... Our "immigration problem" does not date to the years following the "aftermath of WW2". With the exception of the contemporary immigration problem here now, there are a number of timeframes where migration peaked.

The timeframe between 1880-1920 was known as the GREAT WAVE OF MIGRATION. It took about 25 years to recover from that, but America did recover. Prior to that, many other large migration waves have occurred -- including one German migration of more than a million people who left for America during 1868-1878.

Go backwards a hundred years from that date. Check up on the State of Pennsylvania -- right around 1776 when 1/3 of the population was German and locals were trying to discourage and curb the large numbers of Germans from entering into America then.

The comparision of past migrations to those contemporary "migration" issues now, can only show that people do, indeed, leave one country for a better place to live. The current immigration problems we now face are negatively impacting our American economy and our livestyle. Crime is up, our educational system is being pushed beyond capacity, our health care system is being forced to deliver health care that cannot be paid for by these people who have "migrated" here for a "better life" (one they really cannot afford to be in). Crime statistics on illegal aliens have risen and American citizens become victims to those crimes. And then there is the lack of interest in assimilating to America's culture and lifestyle that has just plain pissed Americans off. (Come, enjoy, and take from our culture and lifestyle but don't join-in, keep your own "identity". What a hypocritical ideology! But then again, we're not talking about the brightest stars in the sky, now are we?)

We ARE, despite what you proport, a land of laws and order. Too many illegal aliens have trespassed into our Nation, determined they will assume a false identity, steal a car, not obtain vehicle insurance, live 5-15 in one residence, possibly work under-the-table and take a job away from an American citizen. If you want to live in a socialist state or a world of chaos, that's your perogative. It's not a choice I will make. And I know I'm not alone.

And that's what scares the hell out of you.

Keep checking your watch, Daedalus. Keep posting, too, especially after this Bill fails. We'll compare notes then.