Thread: AZ IA law fallout harms LDS Church

The FLDS are interesting. Under the rule of the Jeffs, especially Warren, their theology has become much harsher, the rules stricter. It wasn't like that so much under "Uncle Roy." If you look at the photos of the 1953 Short Creek raid, they are modestly but their attire is entirely within the range of 1950s fashions at the time.

Quotes:

"Pearce has repeatedly said his efforts to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona and keep them from coming here is based on the Mormon Church's 13 Articles of Faith, which includes obeying the law."

"I want the church to put a stop to him," said Celia Alejandra Alvarez Portugal, 30, a member of the LDS Aguila Ward in Phoenix. Alvarez, AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO is in deportation proceedings after the landscaping business she worked for was raided last year by Maricopa County sheriff's deputies."

It's incredible how they always get right down to their "demands", and so often hide behind their women and children to do so.

(added - Thank you, Betsy Ross, for your excellent and reasoned explantion about your church, its past and recent growth trends, and for putting this specific reaction into context.)

Yes, there's room in that religion for people to come to different conclusions about a lot of things. That prospective member and his ilk just want to pressure the church to come down on their side.

Corral is clueless and judgmental. First of all, the Mormon Church has the following core belief:

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

That's a core value taught to members for over 100 years. The Mormon Church is aware of this value. Mexico probably has the largest number of Mormons in the world. When Utah legislators wanted to get tough on illegal immigration and put an end to it, the Church quickly came out asking for compassion, which is understandable. Compassion is a good thing but so is abiding by the established laws of the land. Disobedience to these laws have caused SERIOUS damages to both property, life, society and budgets. It's not something to be totally overshadowed by compassion only.

The guy in Arizona who happens to be Mormon doesn't speak for the Mormon Church. It's like judging an entire religion based on the act of one member. If Jose Corral is so clueless -as most pro-illegal immigration folks seem to be - as to not be able to figure that out and is so quick to pull the race card, then he's probably going to be a useless Mormon anyway, especially when tons of his countrymen and countrywomen are already Mormons and even gather in their own Spanish-speaking Mormon chapels, designed to accommodate their language and cultural needs. Many Mormons are highly supportive of non-deportation and the issue has divided them, especially between younger and older generations.

I can't think of any Mormon worth the name who hates people because they are Hispanics or illegals. In fact, many illegals join the Mormon Church daily and even go do missionary work. The Mormon church is not in the business of checking IDs or verifying legal status. It can't force people to obey the laws of the land. That's everyone's individual prerogative. It can't stop loving people because they're undocumented. That would not be Christian for any Church to do. It should teach people to obey the laws of the land but ultimately it's up to the people to obey those laws.

The official in Arizona is doing nothing more than honoring the laws of the land. That makes him a good citizen first and then a good Mormon second. Corral is the clueless one who, like his compatriots, is quick to pull the race card on anyone who won't agree to the ILLEGAL immigration movement, in other words, continue to allow the to invade the country for work, education, money, entitlements and privileges normally reserved for those who earned it and not by simply crossing the border illegally into the United States.

"I don't know Russell Pearce. I don't know where he is coming from. All I know is that what he is doing is not what Jesus Christ taught," he said.

I call it B.S.

1. Thou shall not steal
2. Thou shall not bear false witness.
3. Give unto Ceasar's what's Ceasar's

Corral is better off joining a Church that shares his lack of values. Corral needs to read Mexico's own Immigration laws and definitely get a clue.
Unless he believes that the Savior is in support of illegal activities and illegal alien smuggling, id theft and fraud. There is nothing righteous about invading someone's country whether we do it ourselves or whether Mexicans do it to us. Borders should be respected unless it's a matter of national security and justifiable war. Self-preservation should be done within one's own country or via legal means into someone else's. That's what lawyers are for and that's what visas and quotas are for.

The United States should not be anyone's $5 hooker whether it's for religious conversions or anything else. It's not fair to harm American societies just to alleviate Mexico's problems because at the end of the day, it's always about THEM and THEIR needs, THEIR views and THEIR wants.

Enough of that crap already!

Well I'm hoping IA families will flee, not just that religion but OUR NATION! As for Jorge Pimienta, I wish him luck finding a religion that preaches disobedience of the law.

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Quotes:



"I want the church to put a stop to him," said Celia Alejandra Alvarez Portugal, 30, a member of the LDS Aguila Ward in Phoenix. Alvarez, AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO is in deportation proceedings after the landscaping business she worked for was raided last year by Maricopa County sheriff's deputies."

First the Mormon Church SHOULDN't interfere. Separation of Church and State. Second, even if it did interfere with a phone call asking for compassion, it would contradict its own Articles Of Faith where it says that Mormons are to honor and obey the laws of the land.
The Mormon Church cannot fairly condone illegal activity, especially if those activities are committed by its own members, regardless of race, color, etc.
Portugal can make her demands from the comfort of her Mexican home where she belongs after deportation and then she can apply to enter legally like other decent, genuine immigrants worth the name do.
It's about time we end the Mexican monopoly on immigration issues.

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Quotes:

"Pearce has repeatedly said his efforts to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona and keep them from coming here is based on the Mormon Church's 13 Articles of Faith, which includes obeying the law."

"I want the church to put a stop to him," said Celia Alejandra Alvarez Portugal, 30, a member of the LDS Aguila Ward in Phoenix. Alvarez, AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO is in deportation proceedings after the landscaping business she worked for was raided last year by Maricopa County sheriff's deputies."

It's incredible how they always get right down to their "demands", and so often hide behind their women and children to do so.

(added - Thank you, Betsy Ross, for your excellent and reasoned explantion about your church, its past and recent growth trends, and for putting this specific reaction into context.)

Thank yo ufor your kind words. Mormonism in all its forms is a big part of the cultural bedrock of the West.

BetsyRoss wrote:
"Mormonism in all its forms is a big part of the cultural bedrock of the West."

I had not realized until I became involved in learning about illegal immigration nationally how many members of Congress from the West representing both political parties are members of the LSD church, not only from Utah, which one expects, but also from Calif., Nevada, and Colorado. I'm sure this is even more so at the state and local level in Utah, Nevada, and parts of Colorado. The founder of the Marriott hotel chain also is a Mormon, and evidently is a major player behind organized lobbying for "the overwhelming need" for primarily Hispanic workers in the the U.S. hospitality and service industries. This puts U.S. citizen voters at a real disadvantage because all major religious groups represent themselves as "international" in focus, which will allow them to claim a "religious high ground" in making their unreasonable and illegal demands for civil amnesty for illegal aliens at a national level if we are not careful in stopping them.

In short, this is the reason I believe Thomas Jefferson spoke about the need of the "separation of church and state" in our Republic.

Otherwise, BetsyRoss is right: the Mormons have made a significant contribution in shaping the settlement of the West and also in helping to create the culture which emphasizes a belief in personal responsibility so characteristic of that region. I sincerely hope we are not going to be put in the position of being asked to boycott the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in order to maintain our opposition to amnesty!

Yes, you are absolutely right about that, southwestern Wyoming, and Idaho too. In fact, a look at the original designated boundaries for the proposed state of 'Deseret' tells quite a story:

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/dail ... te_eom.htm

The attacks are coming from both ends. If the church in question supports some sort of amnesty the article or reporter, or editor spin positive. If the church supports enforcement of the laws on the books then the attack paints the church as racist.

The church is being attacked by the enemies from the frontal assault, or infiltrated and watered down from the back door.