Thread: AZTrespassing law may turn more illegal imigts into citizens

[quote]
[b]Immigrants must prove they have lived in the U.S. for at least 10 consecutive years, demonstrate “good moral character,â€

Originally Posted by ICEstorm

There are both advantages and disadvantages to this.

First the advantages:

A dramatic increase of the Illegal Alien population will be put through the system. They will be fingerprinted and a Rap sheet will be generated for them. So if they commit any other crimes it will be easier to catch them since we will have their fingerprints in the system.

If they are issued Employment Authorization while they are going through Deportation proceedings, they will be issued a social security number and have Federal and state income tax withheld from their salaries.

Most of the illegals will not be eligible under current law for Permanent Residency. Only those who can prove they have been in the U.S. for more than ten years, have committed no other crimes, have U.S. Citizen children, and are the sole caretakers for their children will be eligible for Permanent Residency. Most Mexicans will not be eligible for Political Asylum.

Disadvantages:

Most illegals without other Criminal Convictions will be eligble to be released from Federal custody either on bond or on their own recognizance. While out on bond or ROR, they can continue to have anchor babies, making it more difficult to have them deported.

In addition, most of these illegals without a criminal record will be permitted to Voluntarily Depart the U.S., which is different from being Deported or Removed. If they are granted Voluntary Departure by an Immigration Judge, and depart the country, if they illegally reenter the U.S. subsequent to that departure, there will be no reprocussions. They cannot be Federally prosecuted for the illegal reentry under 8 USC 1326 unless they reentered subsequent to being actually deported. So most will probably just accept VD and then just sneak back into the country afterwards.

Finally, most will abscond and not show up for court, get ordered deported In Absentia, however the good thing about this is that they will never be eligible for any type of amnesty, Permanent Residence, etc. in the future.

If someone came to me with a business proposal of this nature with the advantages and disadvantages you describe, where I pay some outfit $10 billion a year with 56,000 employees for customs and border protection to keep illegal aliens and contraband out of the country and I pay another agency called ICE another $5 billion a year with 15,000 to 17,000 employees to deport those who came in for a total of $15 billion a year and a total of 77,000 employees, yet every year, I end up with more illegal aliens than I had the year before and the same or greater level of contraband, I would say "thanks, but no thanks."

I would then turn to the states and their 800,000 local and state police officers already paid for, and say "hey, we need your help", "while during the normal course of your business of policing your cities, counties and states, would you please arrest illegal aliens and collect illegal contraband", and they would say "sure, of course we would, we already do that unless we're told not to." And then, I'd say "well, no one ever again is going to tell you not to, in fact, we're going to require that you do it as part of your every day police work", and they'll say "cool".

Furthermore, we want your state courts to handle deportation hearings as well for illegal aliens, foreign drug dealers, traffickers and smugglers found in your state under your state laws, but if you find a terrorist, you'll transfer that person to us". And they'll say "cool".

In return, your cities, counties and states will realize billions of dollars in reduced government spending on illegal aliens and enjoy hundreds of billions of dollars of new increased employment and earnings for your citizens and businesses. And they'll say "cool."

And they might ask, but what do we do with the contraband? And I'll say "you sell it to the highest citizen legal bidder and keep the money." Even the drugs? Especially the drugs, because we're going to legalize/regulate/tax the drug market under a civil code instead of a criminal code, run it 100% by licensed US citizens and put an end to this foreign interference in our society, our markets, our culture, our economy and our political system. All you'll need to do is notify the federal government of your activities, your arrests, your prosecutions, your deportations, your contraband, and any dangerous weapons of mass destruction which of course we'll label as terrorism and handle on the federal level.

But what about the borders, they might ask? And I'd say, they're your borders, go guard them. Take 40,000 of your 800,000 police force members and put them on the Southern Border on a rotation system, in teams of 20 for every mile of the southern border, and guard it 24/7/365. We currently have 5,000 federal border patrol agents on the northern border, so for now, we'll handle the northern border at the federal level until we determine we need state assistance controlling that border. What about the 19,000 US Border Patrol agents who guard the southern border? They will continue for at least 5 more years to do what they do now at federal government expense, in addition to what you decide to do. But what about other crimes the 40,000 would otherwise be working on? You and I both know that half of your police officers spend more than half their time chasing pot smokers, something they'll no longer have to do. You're going to have more than enough police officers secure your communities and states doing it this way.

This whole process from border patrol to immigration enforcement to deportation courts has been nothing but a complete waste of money, a total failure and nothing short of a fraud against the agents, who are just set up to risk their lives for nothing, because everything they do is then usurped by ICE, DHS, the White House, and the Courts.

States have to take it back because states are the ones with the motive and need to solve this problem. States and citizens are being sold out by the very federal agencies they've paid and entrusted to protect our nation. Morton's comments, Eric Holder's comments, the President's comments, Crowley's comments, all tell the story. The national sovereign territory of the United States is being dissolved before our very eyes right under our very noses. We are in the grasp of traitors. It's time to break loose and try a different tactic, because we can't expect a different outcome, if we keep doing more of the same things that got us in the disaster to begin with.

There should be no hearings or appeals for illegals. Clearly, there are guilty of being here illegally. Just round them up and deport them.

The other problem is that people assume that all illegals are Mexicans that can simply be bused across the border. What about illegals from South America, Central America, Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and Europe? How will the individual states deport those people? Is a local sheriff from Arizona going to escort an illegal convicted felon on an airplane back to the Middle East? Yes many aliens must be escorted because they are too dangerous to be trusted to return on their own. If you want proof of this then check out this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpWZmY8PIiQ


This is the duty of Federal Agents. No state Gov is going to pay for their officers to take trips around the world on the state's dime. An El Salvadorian or Guatemalan cannot be dumped in Mexico because Mexico will not accept them. There is no way a state can take over all Immigration enforcement totally on their own. They can assist, they can detain and arrest, but ultimately it will be the Federal Gov who is responsible for detaining them long term, prosecuting the cases in Immigration court, obtaining travel documents from foreign governments, and physically removing illegal aliens from every country in the world back to their countries of origen. No single state in the U.S. has the resources, the training, the time, or the money to accomplish this unless police departments completely abandon all their other law enforcement duties and completely transform themselves into Immigration Enforcement agencies.

Originally Posted by ICEstorm

The other problem is that people assume that all illegals are Mexicans that can simply be bused across the border. What about illegals from South America, Central America, Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and Europe? How will the individual states deport those people? Is a local sheriff from Arizona going to escort an illegal convicted felon on an airplane back to the Middle East? Yes many aliens must be escorted because they are too dangerous to be trusted to return on their own. If you want proof of this then check out this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpWZmY8PIiQ


This is the duty of Federal Agents. No state Gov is going to pay for their officers to take trips around the world on the state's dime. An El Salvadorian or Guatemalan cannot be dumped in Mexico because Mexico will not accept them. There is no way a state can take over all Immigration enforcement totally on their own. They can assist, they can detain and arrest, but ultimately it will be the Federal Gov who is responsible for detaining them long term, prosecuting the cases in Immigration court, obtaining travel documents from foreign governments, and physically removing illegal aliens from every country in the world back to their countries of origen. No single state in the U.S. has the resources, the training, the time, or the money to accomplish this unless police departments completely abandon all their other law enforcement duties and completely transform themselves into Immigration Enforcement agencies.

No one here on this forum assumes all illegal aliens are Mexicans!! We know they're from all over the world. And judging from the video you showed us, I can assure you there isn't a law enforcement officer in the country that would be escorting an illegal alien in shirt and tie, with some ridiculous plastic handcuffs on him either. The officers would be in uniforms, the illegal alien would be in steel cuffs and leg-irons, if not a straight-jacket and no one would be holding their arms and talking to them like they're some 4 year old either. If they didn't stop yelling, they would be silenced or drugged until they're trip was over.

Actually, states have far more resources and manpower than the federal government and it makes no difference to taxpayers whether they pay the money to the federal government or to the states so long as the job gets done. The feds aren't doing it, the head of ICE has announced he isn't going to do it, so the states will. We'll stop paying the feds and start paying the states. Furthermore, if state courts handle the deportation hearings, then illegal aliens will be paying for all of it.

Originally Posted by Judy

I can assure you there isn't a law enforcement officer in the country that would be escorting an illegal alien in shirt and tie, with some ridiculous plastic handcuffs on him either. The officers would be in uniforms, the illegal alien would be in steel cuffs and leg-irons, if not a straight-jacket and no one would be holding their arms and talking to them like they're some 4 year old either. If they didn't stop yelling, they would be silenced or drugged until they're trip was over.

Well if they did that, I hope those officers have special permission from the Government of the nation they are escorting that alien to, because if not they would be in violation of international law, since a Law Enforcement officer of the United States, whether Federal, state, or local, loses all of his law enforcement authority once he leaves the airspace of the U.S. and enters into foreign airspace/territory, which includes detaining a prisoner. Once you, as a Law Enforcement Officer travel outside the U.S. to another country, you then become the alien of that country. In addition, the Law Enforcement Officer will then become subject to arrest and prosecution for unlawful imprisonment of one of their citizens, under foreign law by Foreign officials. Trust me I know, I have been to just about every third world country in the world that hate the U.S. and U.S. Gov officials.

As far as sedating goes, we were sedating aliens and drugging them up until a few years ago when the ACLU brought suit over it and the courts ruled that we now need to obtain a court order before we can forcibly drug any alien.

The mass deportations of convicted criminals are usually done on U.S. Gov/Military charter flights to American Military bases overseas which is why aliens on those flights can be cuffed and shackled. On commercial flights, it is a different story. There are not enough Military charter flights to deport every illegal in the country.

As far as the head of ICE goes, he is a bozo and he doesn't represent the entire ICE workforce. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the politically elected leadership which sets policy. It is up to the American people to put pressure on Congress to put pressure on elected officials to allow ICE agents to do their job!

Originally Posted by ICEstorm

Originally Posted by Judy

I can assure you there isn't a law enforcement officer in the country that would be escorting an illegal alien in shirt and tie, with some ridiculous plastic handcuffs on him either. The officers would be in uniforms, the illegal alien would be in steel cuffs and leg-irons, if not a straight-jacket and no one would be holding their arms and talking to them like they're some 4 year old either. If they didn't stop yelling, they would be silenced or drugged until they're trip was over.

Well if they did that, I hope those officers have special permission from the Government of the nation they are escorting that alien to, because if not they would be in violation of international law, since a Law Enforcement officer of the United States, whether Federal, state, or local, loses all of his law enforcement authority once he leaves the airspace of the U.S. and enters into foreign airspace/territory, which includes detaining a prisoner. Once you, as a Law Enforcement Officer travel outside the U.S. to another country, you then become the alien of that country. In addition, the Law Enforcement Officer will then become subject to arrest and prosecution for unlawful imprisonment of one of their citizens, under foreign law by Foreign officials. Trust me I know, I have been to just about every third world country in the world that hate the U.S. and U.S. Gov officials.

As far as sedating goes, we were sedating aliens and drugging them up until a few years ago when the ACLU brought suit over it and the courts ruled that we now need to obtain a court order before we can forcibly drug any alien.

The mass deportations of convicted criminals are usually done on U.S. Gov/Military charter flights to American Military bases overseas which is why aliens on those flights can be cuffed and shackled. On commercial flights, it is a different story. There are not enough Military charter flights to deport every illegal in the country.

As far as the head of ICE goes, he is a bozo and he doesn't represent the entire ICE workforce. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the politically elected leadership which sets policy. It is up to the American people to put pressure on Congress to put pressure on elected officials to allow ICE agents to do their job!

I'm certain the state will notify the country of origin and follow all appropriate international travel requirements in their escort services just as the feds do.

I'm sure the states will just hire commercial charters or buy their own planes. Again most of the illegal aliens being deported in Arizona won't need a plane ride. They just need a trip to the Mexican border.

In Arizona, there won't be any problem getting a Court Order for the state and local police to sedate illegal aliens whenever needed for a safe and pleasant deportation back to their homeland.

Originally Posted by Judy

I'm certain the state will notify the country of origin and follow all appropriate international travel requirements in their escort services just as the feds do.

I'm sure the states will just hire commercial charters or buy their own planes. Again most of the illegal aliens being deported in Arizona won't need a plane ride. They just need a trip to the Mexican border.

In Arizona, there won't be any problem getting a Court Order for the state and local police to sedate illegal aliens whenever needed for a safe and pleasant deportation back to their homeland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uomnL_XvBi8