Thread: Border issue moves into landowners' yards

Border issue moves into landowners' yards
Chertoff warns that properties will be seized if owners are uncooperative with federal plans to build a fence in the Southwest.
By Nicole Gaouette
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

December 8, 2007

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration warned landowners along the southern border Friday that it would seize their property if they refused to cooperate with federal efforts to build a fence meant to slow illegal immigration.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he would give landowners 30 days to indicate whether they would allow federal officials on their land to survey its suitability for fencing. If they decline, he said, he would turn to the courts to gain temporary access.

If the agency determines the land is appropriate for fencing and landowners refuse to cooperate, the department will turn to the courts to get title.

"The door is still open to talk, but it's not open for endless talk," Chertoff said of the time landowners have to respond. "We do need to get moving."

He added, "We won't pay more than market price for the land."

Chertoff said that access to 225 miles of noncontiguous land, most of it in Texas and Arizona, was essential to meeting the administration's goal of building 370 miles of border fencing by the end of 2008.

Reaction was swift.

"I tell you, on this one issue, the Farm Bureau, the United Farm Workers, Democrats and Republicans, white, black, brown, everybody is against the border fence. It just doesn't make sense," said Juan D. Salinas, Hidalgo County judge in Texas.

Salinas, who is the chief administrator of the local government, said objections stemmed from economic, cultural and environmental concerns. "We've been trying to talk to them about using other ways," he said. "It's a disappointment that again the Department of Homeland Security is not listening to local taxpayers."

Chertoff also announced that his agency had given conditional approval to an experimental 28-mile combination of technology and physical fencing in Arizona that enabled border agents not only to detect intrusions, but to see what or who had crossed onto U.S. land. Cameras in the system are so powerful that they can distinguish between cattle and people from 10 miles away and can show whether anyone is toting packages and guns.

Border agents will test the system over the next 45 days and determine how it can be improved before a decision is made about whether to expand it.

The fencing projects are part of a larger administration effort to improve enforcement at the border and within the country and repair some of the political damage that immigration has done to President Bush and his party. Bush vigorously supported the failed immigration bill that would have given some legal status to undocumented immigrants in the United States.

The president's stance left many GOP voters angry about his support for what they called amnesty. The issue also bitterly divided Republicans, many of whom argued that enforcement should be the government's first or even sole response.

To appease conservative GOP critics and bolster support for broader reforms, Bush approved a plan in 2006 that authorized 700 miles of fencing along the border with Mexico.

Chertoff said that by the end of next year, the administration planned to fence off 90% to 95% of the border from the Pacific Ocean to Texas, adding that the Rio Grande forms a natural barrier. In addition to 370 miles of fencing, the agency is building 300 miles of vehicle barriers.

"That is a big step forward in answering the public outcry to have some protection at the Southwest border," Chertoff said. But he added that two challenges are getting funding from Congress and dealing with uncooperative landowners.

Homeland Security contacted some 600 owners and held town hall meetings in border communities to explain the fence project. The agency mailed about 150 letters Friday.

Department officials say "relatively few" letters will be going to California landowners. They were unable to give an exact count but said the state's landowners had been cooperative.

The agency has encountered the most resistance in Texas, where much of the land along the border is privately owned. Ranchers and farmers say that the fence would cut off their access to the Rio Grande, the only regional source of fresh water. Business groups say fencing will slow cross-border traffic that is crucial for local economies.

Salinas says that many Americans work and volunteer on the Mexican side of the border, or have family there. "What kind of message are we sending them?" he asked.

Chertoff said two-thirds of Texans who were approached agreed to give Homeland Security access to their land, a quarter did not respond, and about 10% refused.

The objections, the secretary said, stem from "the problem of what we sometimes call 'not in my backyard.' " He said his agency had been receptive to suggestions, including the creation of open areas that allow for easy visibility instead of a fence.

Chertoff said that the fence was necessary not only to stop border-crossers, but also drug trafficking, and that it would help reduce violence.

www.latimes.com

I thought I recognized that sound... It was more American Tax Dollars being thrown out the window for another worthless policy and project by the Bushit administration.

One thing I couldn't help BUT notice the past few days. One phrase keeps showing itself everywhere ! This department, that department, the Senators, the Representatives,etc.

NO ONE IN WASHINGTON IS LISTENING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE !!!

I don't care if they have evoked their "Executive Privileges" or not. If any ONE of US, performed our tasks and responsibilities as Washington is doing, we would be what.... FIRED ! I think it's time for the pink slips folks.

And for another one of those "220 years ago in history," in a speech Patrick Henry gave, "We the People ? or We the States ?"

"America had, on a former occasion, put the utmost confidence in them-- a confidence which was well placed; and I am sure, sir, I would give up any thing to them; I would cheerfully confide in them as my representatives. But, sir, on this great occasion, I would demand the cause of their conduct."

Demand the cause of their conduct. What do WE THE PEOPLE do, when They The Arrogant, won't listen to, or abide by the same laws as WE THE PEOPLE ?

To those that care not to listen to old foggies... If Spock were here, I'm sure he would say something like, "It's only logical, if the few refuse the will of the many, they must be removed.

Well, it's time for another Dobbsatarian attack. My hand is starting to pound on the desk...

To A Better Day America !

Your Loyal Son & Servant ~

_________________________

Give Me Liberty, or Give Me Death

I wonder how much of this is truly bull crap. It would seem to me that if you had illegals hopping around on your property you would say build a darn fence. I think this whole Chertoff thing is pure show. Do they give any addresses of these people with this land. I wiould like to write one a letter.

"I tell you, on this one issue, the Farm Bureau, the United Farm Workers, Democrats and Republicans, white, black, brown, everybody is against the border fence. It just doesn't make sense," said Juan D. Salinas, Hidalgo County judge in Texas.

B.S. alert!

Build the 854-mile double-layered fence, and build it NOW!

Many people along the Mexican border have been dealing with illegals for 30 years and begging the government to do something about it. They have not only refused, people have been told they can't defend their property.

Schools have been broke along the border for many, many years. The state of Texas once was considering a lawsuit against the federal government for failure to enforce the law and thus leaving the border school districts to education so many children of illegals.

This is not new and they have wanted something done.

Why, suddenly, is the government ready to jump on this with both feet and take the land? They are acting very quickly on this, when it has been a real problem for 30 years.

We have only token enforcement of the immigration laws, ID theft laws, laws limiting non citizen access to welfare, traffic laws, insurance laws, and a whole host of other laws - yet they are going to do this and do it right now and give the Rio Grande to Mexico to do it. This will probably make Mexico very happy. Now maybe that's the reason right there.

Hey, 'Foxy, let us build that fence, and we will give you unfettered access to the Rio Grande.'

Is it for security reasons? Could be - but so far that hasn't mattered much to them.

Is it to funnel billions to some political contributors?

Is it to stall and keep us focused on this while they dry the ink on all those green cards they are handing our for illegals.

Yes, I have serious misgivings about this fence. They are not because I don't think a fence COULD work, but because I don't think they intend the fence to work.

But even if this fence works, it will not send one single illegal home, it will not get one single illegal off the welfare system, it will not free up one single job for Americans, it will do nothing to fix the problem that is eating away at our interior.

Just me, but a real fence would take some time to build, a real fence. By the time they could get a real fence, one that would be a deterrent, the anchor babies, who are entering Jr. High this year will be voting.

Here's some additional insight coming out of DHS:

DHS Takes Conditional Possession Of Project 28 Virtual Fence

Friday, 07 December 2007

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is moving forward today with multiple advancements in the construction of pedestrian and virtual fencing along the southwest border. These advancements will add to more than 284 miles of fencing already in place and enable construction of roughly 670 miles of fencing by the end of December 2008.

"The American public has been loud and clear in their call for secure borders," said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. "We will continue to use every tool, resource and authority we have to answer that call. Without the participation of border residents and the technology to span remote areas, we place an unfair burden on our frontline personnel and will have difficulty meeting the expectations of the American public."

In recent months, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has made preliminary determinations about where pedestrian fencing should be built and, working with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers , contacted the landowners in the area, often in person. While many landowners allowed entry to conduct engineering tests and surveys to determine if the land is suitable for fence building, others did not respond or refused entry. Today, CBP will mail letters to those landowners notifying them that an action will be brought in federal court for a temporary right of entry to conduct tests and surveys. If CBP and USACE determine that the land is suitable for fence-building, they will negotiate with the landowner on a purchase price. If these negotiations are unsuccessful, the government will return to court to seek title and possession and the court will determine the appropriate price. To date, the federal government has contacted roughly 600 landowners and held more than 18 community town hall meetings to discuss this process with residents, local officials and other interested parties.

Also today, CBP will take conditional possession of the prototype Project 28 system to conduct operational testing following the recent completion of systems verification testing by Boeing. Located near Sasabe, Ariz., P28 is a prototype development of nine towers equipped with radar and communications systems and automated ground sensors linked to a command and control center and monitors in Border Patrol vehicles. For the next 45 days, the Border Patrol will stress the system in an operational setting before fully accepting it from the contractor. P28 testing will contribute to the future design and deployment of technologies at the border.

http://www.borderfirereport.net/latest/ ... rtual.html

We will continue to use every tool, resource and authority we have to answer that call


Not by a long shot, have they used every tool, resource and authority - not by a very, very long shot.

Ahh Those Fences >>>

WE THE PEOPLE, need them like another hole in our security system ! And I must further add, we have been fighting the personal property borders far longer than the past 30 years.

And on that thought... oh oh, here I go having another 'Dobbsatarianism' attack ~

Would it really surprise any of you, if they don't want to put these fences up, so after they process their green visa cards, they will have PAVED ENTRANCES across our borders, an expressway to the USA lets say, and possibly toll booths to help defer the cost of the fence? I mean, we wouldn't want them to have to cross the desert or river to get here and finish taking US over would WE ?

For Gods sake America ! WAKE UP !!! After seeing Prince Shrub & the Governor of New Mexico on t v the past couple of days, SPEAKING SPANISH TO ILLEGAL TOURISTS ??? !!!

Forgive Me ! I must go for the ice pack and asprin. My hand has gotten so sore from pounding the desk, I reverted to banging my head on the wall, and now I have a sore spot on the wall ~

To A Better Day America !

Your Loyal Son & Servant ~

_______________________________

Give Me Liberty, or Give Me Death

FENCES ALONG OUR BORDERS ? AWAY WITH YOU AND YOUR TOURISTS !

Of course, we have been fighting this for more than 30 years, but I am talking about this most recent flood. Texas has always had illegals coming across the border. They usually came to work for a time, stayed out of trouble (somewhat) and then went back home - some stayed, of course.

What we have seen in the last 30 years is far different from anything in the past - at least here in TExas - much, much different.

Also, when I say fighting, I mean fighting our government to get them to do something to bring some relief to the landowners, school systems, and healthcare systems in the area. All this fell on deaf ears - and much of the rest of the country didn't have a clue because the media considered it a non-issue and the politicians were able to ignore it then.

He added, "We won't pay more than market price for the land."










Right.........and how much are some people being paid by smugglers to keep their property open to them?

Sorry, but money talks and as we've come to see all too well, there are those who will throw our country.....and all of us.....under the bus for the sake of $$$$$. Why should individual land owners act any differently if given the chance?

I fully believe that it's very likely some of these people are being paid off and that's why they don't want the fence.