Thread: OHIO Ministers Challenge Political Pulpit Pan - IRS

I'm placing this in News & Stories because it can have far reaching problems for harboring illegal aliens in the future.



Ohio ministers challenge political pulpit plan

Monday, September 08, 2008
By ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS, Associated Press Writer
ADVERTISEMENT

COLUMBUS, Ohio —
A group of ministers filed a complaint Monday with the Internal Revenue Service to stop a conservative organization from encouraging pastors to endorse or oppose political candidates.

The group of 55 religious leaders from Ohio, Indiana, Iowa and other states said the actions by the Alliance Defense Fund jeopardize the constitutional separation of church and state.

"The rightful place of religious leaders and communities of faith in American life is not in electoral politics," said the Rev. Eric Williams, a minister with the liberal United Church of Christ.

The Phoenix-based conservative group has enlisted ministers around the country to invite investigations by the IRS by giving political sermons Sept. 28, a day the group has dubbed "Pulpit Freedom Sunday." The alliance says it will represent any churches targeted by the IRS in lawsuits against the government.

"Pastors have a right to speak about biblical truths from the pulpit without any fear of punishment," said Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the alliance. "They shouldn't be intimidated into giving up those constitutional rights."

The defense fund says it's looking for a lawsuit to challenge a 1954 IRS restriction that led to the prohibition against pastors endorsing candidates at the risk of losing their churches' tax exempt status.

A message seeking comment left Monday at the IRS was not immediately returned.

The nonprofit alliance has about 40 staff attorneys and about 1,200 volunteer lawyers around the country who handle the group's lawsuits pro bono.

The group has filed lawsuits challenging California's gay marriage law, in defense of an Illinois student's right to wear a T-shirt with an anti-gay message, and in defense of allowing a judge to hang a portrait of Jesus in a Louisiana courthouse.

Three former IRS officials, including Mortimer Caplin, the agency's commissioner under President Kennedy, also asked the IRS on Monday to investigate the Alliance Defense Fund's initiative.

Marcus Owens, a former director of the IRS exempt organizations division, questioned the ethics of lawyers encouraging ministers to break the law.

"It is the role of attorneys to assist their clients in understanding the law," Owens said. "It is not at all clear, under any set of ethical rules applicable to members of the bar, that one can actively aid, assist and encourage a violation of the law."

According to defense fund's promotional materials about its initiative, "Each pastor will prepare the sermon with the legal assistance of the ADF to ensure maximum effectiveness in challenging the IRS."

Stanley said that information is being misinterpreted.

"What we're doing here is working within the framework of American law that allows for these types of civil rights challenges, and allows an individual who believes their constitutional rights are violated to have their day in court," he said.

Many of the ministers signing the complaint against the ADF are members of the liberal United Church of Christ.

The IRS investigated the denomination earlier this year over allegations it violated IRS rules when it hosted Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama at its convention in Hartford, Conn., in 2007. The tax agency ultimately found no violations had occurred.

___


http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Sep08/ ... ht,00.html

Thanks Gogo, I almost feel out of my chair upon hearing it!

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

Thanks Gogo, I almost feel out of my chair upon hearing it!

Thought I heard a thud, just before I fell out of my chair

The Phoenix-based conservative group has enlisted ministers around the country to invite investigations by the IRS by giving political sermons Sept. 28, a day the group has dubbed "Pulpit Freedom Sunday." The alliance says it will represent any churches targeted by the IRS in lawsuits against the government.

Oh this ought to be good. Take the tax-free status from all of them that revolt by making political speeches.

"Pastors have a right to speak about biblical truths from the pulpit without any fear of punishment," said Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the alliance. "They shouldn't be intimidated into giving up those constitutional rights."

Is this guy a nut or something?

Marcus Owens, a former director of the IRS exempt organizations division, questioned the ethics of lawyers encouraging ministers to break the law.

Good for you, go get 'em! Have a chat with the current director of the IRS!

Many of the ministers signing the complaint against the ADF are members of the liberal United Church of Christ.

Churches against churches, that says something. The ones following the law don't want these rogue churches to destroy their status. LOL

I don't like shutting down free speech, but I do breaking the law.

Our church was against taking any federal funds for community work under Bush because they said if they did, the feds would come in a regulate the church. THAT IS NOT GOOD.

Originally Posted by Gogo

Our church was against taking any federal funds for community work under Bush because they said if they did, the feds would come in a regulate the church. THAT IS NOT GOOD.

The big churches have business that put the others out of business. They can not compete with the lower prices the church owned business's are able to offer. I think a church should only own churches and parking lots and not be allowed to have business. That's what I'm against! Oh, plus the illegal harboring too.
I actually don't care about the political issue. BUT whatever it takes to get to those harboring the illegals is fine with me.

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

Originally Posted by Gogo

Our church was against taking any federal funds for community work under Bush because they said if they did, the feds would come in a regulate the church. THAT IS NOT GOOD.

The big churches have business that put the others out of business. They can not compete with the lower prices the church owned business's are able to offer. I think a church should only own churches and parking lots and not be allowed to have business. That's what I'm against! Oh, plus the illegal harboring too.
I actually don't care about the political issue. BUT whatever it takes to get to those harboring the illegals is fine with me.

Well, we can take away businesses from churches. We don't have any but it is a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Then you can limit businesses to only people with blue eyes. That is dangerous in my opinion. Don't throw out the baby with the dirty bath water.

Originally Posted by jimpasz

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

Thanks Gogo, I almost feel out of my chair upon hearing it!

Thought I heard a thud, just before I fell out of my chair

That may have been me, Jimpasz

The only thing I am really concered with is that in the future, we need to watch how the government's different agencies term the word 'church'. The warpped behavior of ruling the public and oppression in general would dismiss any facsimile of the meetings of our forefathers who often at times gathered by the neighborhoods at the churches to plot against the British. This proposed restriction would keep that from happening today or in the future, depending on its interpreter. What is a church? IMO, is a structure for those to gather at and speak and practice the preferred religion and a church should be nothing more. If the govenment tries to term it as somehting else, we will loose.