Thread: Democrats mull dividing House immigration bill

Democrats mull dividing House immigration bill

http://washingtontimes.com/national/200 ... -3573r.htm

By Brian DeBose and Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
June 19, 2007

House Democrats say they may break the immigration issue up into a series of smaller bills that would put off the tougher parts and allow others to pass, such as border security, and high-tech and agriculture worker programs that have clear support.
That could buy Democrats more time to work out the tougher aspects of immigration, such as what to do about the estimated 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens now here, but it would go against the Senate's massive catchall approach and contradicts President Bush's call for a broad bill to pass.
"There is active, serious discussion in that regard," said Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, Florida Democrat, who said Democratic leaders tossed the idea around at a recent meeting. "The idea is out there, and there is listening going on by the leadership in regards to immigration on trying to come up with something that is doable, sensible and plausible to the American people."
Both Democrats and Republicans in the House say no decisions have been made and both sides are waiting to see what happens in the Senate's off-again-on-again immigration debate.
In the Senate, Democrats took the first step to revive the debate yesterday, introducing a new bill that compiles all of the Senate's action over the past few weeks. The move is designed to overcome some of the procedural hurdles opponents are expected to erect.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, says he is committed to getting a "comprehensive" bill done before releasing the Senate for its Fourth of July vacation, and he has the support of top Republican leaders.
In the House, though, Republicans are more uniformly opposed, and many vulnerable freshman Democrats could be hurt by a bill labeled "amnesty." That leaves Democratic leaders trying to see what they can pass.
"We are looking for ways we can find some levels of comfort within our caucus and there is some sentiment to do something irrespective of what the Senate does, but we are still looking at it," said Rep. James E. Clyburn, South Carolina Democrat and majority whip in the House.
The chairman of the Judiciary Committee's immigration subcommittee, Rep. Zoe Lofgren, California Democrat, is talking with Democrats and Republicans about how to put together what would likely become her party's chief bill.
House Republicans said they are open to splitting up the issue to make the point that enforcement must come first.
"It's not going to be a one-shot deal," said Rep. Eric Cantor, Virginia Republican and the minority's chief deputy whip. "Until we cross that threshold, until the perception is met that this government is doing its job, I think we're going to have a very angry public if we move to try and do anything else."
Mr. Cantor said the border-security parts of the Senate bill are no more than what Congress already passed before, "so if you've got a situation where the border is still porous and you provide no interior enforcement and you provide amnesty, you're going to be in the same situation 10 years from now."
The House's top Republicans on immigration will announce their package of legislation today: two bills focused on enforcement.
Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican, said he has so little faith in enforcement right now that he's not willing to embrace a broad approach. "It's more important for me to see the Senate bill is dead than expend my efforts on trying to take a different tack here."
Other Republicans, though, warned their party needs to present an alternative.
Rep. Mike Pence, Indiana Republican, has been working up support for his own approach, which would require illegal aliens to leave the country before being able to get on the path to citizenship.
"It's imperative the Republican Party be for something," he said. "What I've advocated is the Republican alternative not just be border security and interior enforcement. We've done that. I think we have to come up with a solution that deals with 12 million illegal aliens without amnesty."
Some House members said if the Senate passes its bill, the House is more likely to try to approve a broad bill as well. But if the Senate fails, the House will be free to move on those areas where it can find majority support.
One Democrat, Rep. G.K. Butterfield of North Carolina, said breaking down the bill could work as a debating tactic, if the end goal is a broad bill combining all the parts.
"You can't pass, and there is no way to do, a guest-worker program if you just pass border security and you can't do a guest-worker program without having a pathway to citizenship, so it has to be comprehensive in that way," he said.

So the House Dems are thinking about a divide and conquer strategy, eh?

That means that we'll have to keep up the pressure longer. Good thing that this movement is growing. We're going to need more troops.

The border needs securing before any other action and we the people need to say when it is secure. Enforcement is next. Let us see enforcement and not just one a year.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070618/D8PRFKF84.html
Rare Tactic May Allow Immigration Votes

Jun 18, 5:32 PM (ET)

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS

WASHINGTON (AP) - Only in the arcane world of the U.S. Senate could a quirky gambit known as a "clay pigeon" make the difference between passage of an important immigration measure and its death at the hands of opponents.

Democratic leaders hope the complex maneuver - which makes use of the Senate's labyrinthine rules to insist on votes on amendments - will frustrate conservatives' attempts to derail the embattled immigration bill, instead putting it on a fast track to passage next week.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he would revive the bill to legalize as many as 12 million unlawful immigrants late this week. To do so, though, he needs backing from 60 senators, and a way to guarantee votes on a tentative list of 22 Republican and Democratic amendments whose consideration is seen as vital to satisfying key waverers.

The so-called clay pigeon is how he's expected to do it, under a strategy that was still taking shape Monday.

(AP) A protester carries a picture of the Statue of Liberty during a gathering of immigrants and...
Full Image
The tactic gets its name from the target used in skeet shooting, which explodes into bits as it is hit. In the Senate, an amendment is the target, and any one senator can demand that it be divided into separate fragments to be voted on piecemeal.

Under the tentative plan, Reid as early as Friday would launch his target - an amendment encompassing all 22 proposals - and shoot it into its component pieces. The Senate would then vote on ending debate on the immigration measure, which would take 60 votes and limit discussion of the bill to 30 more hours. After that interval, all 22 amendments would have to be voted on, with little opportunity for foes to interfere.

Ironically, the move is usually used by mavericks - not leaders - to slow down legislation, not free it from a procedural thicket.

Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., used it last year to protest a bill he complained included excessive spending. By offering and then dividing an amendment that targeted 19 items he deemed offensive, Coburn was able to insist on votes on individual projects.

"It's a brilliant way to gum up the works," said Robert B. Dove, a Senate rules expert who was the chamber's referee for 36 years.

The maneuver appears to be a relatively modern innovation; Dove said he first became aware of it in the early 1970s, when then-Sen. Jim Allen, D-Ala., a master of parliamentary procedures, used it against a bill pushed by the then- majority leader, Sen. Mike Mansfield, D-Mont.

"I remember people being dazzled when he did this," Dove said.

Reid's plan has its risks, chief among them further inflaming the vocal conservative opponents who have vowed to do whatever they can to kill the immigration measure.

"I've seen ideas like this really backfire. You pay a price for this kind of thing," Dove said, noting that the Senate functions almost entirely on consensus. "It can be done - I've seen it done - but it's a difficult maneuver."

I am curious as to whether there is any tipping point at which enough enforcement produces enough of a chill for illegals to start packing their bags. Certainly not at the rate we've benn seeing. On our construction job all the illegals managed to disappear the day that state employment authorities were out; but back in full force the next day.

With these larger ICE busts a lot of them go into hiding---the sanctuary churches are "reaching out" to them. And I understand the defeat of SB 1348 put a lot of them into doubt. But like most people in the black market they almost have to be on the doorstep of at least the sentencing bench before they even budge. Then they're looking back to see if something changes.

This would at least addresss the question of how you get such a large number of people to move. Well, if the neighborhoood suddenly has a lot of blue jacketed men and women they might just go. Seriously, it will take some serious legal disruption of their little game before they feel any fear.

I learned a while back; Forget about "Honor" in the US.

What we need is the Fence, laws enforced, employers punished, employee verification, no more anchor babies and all benefits cut off to illegals, how hard is this to figure out!!


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