Thread: The Government Shutdown Will Cost More Than Trump's $5 Billion Border Wall Funding, A

Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders

I have articulated in my own words, over and over again, on this forum. I am not going to waste my time typing it up again. One correction to your post---I did not say all R's----I said earlier today ----many, perhaps most, but not all.

You said you were betrayed by this President and some R's in Congress, but in my opinion, you have betrayed this President and all Republicans in Congress by working to defeat Republican control of the US House of Representatives. Just my opinion.

I was just curious as to what you thought you were betrayed about, but if you don't want to say, that's okay.

Originally Posted by Judy

You said you were betrayed by this President and some R's in Congress, but in my opinion, you have betrayed this President and all Republicans in Congress by working to defeat Republican control of the US House of Representatives. Just my opinion.

I was just curious as to what you thought you were betrayed about, but if you don't want to say, that's okay.

I'm also curious, did you watch and listen to the video?

Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders

I'm also curious, did you watch and listen to the video?

Yes, I did. I listened to it when it was first posted here.

Originally Posted by Judy

So you can't or won't articulate in your own words why you feel betrayed by this President and some "R's in Congress" to explain your own betrayal of this President and all Republicans in Congress? That's peculiar but certainly your right not to speak.

It's a little silly to think Trump hasn't disappointed us on some issues regarding immigration/border security. For example, just to name a few, DACA (promised to end it immediately after moving into White House), promised executive order ending birthright citizenship (still waiting), promise that catch & release had ended .... it hasn't, lied about building his promised border wall when all that was actually being done was replacing some fencing and building a few miles of fencing that was previously funded and approved ...... not a single mile of Trump's promised wall has been built. I'll grant you all of these aren't his fault, but don't take credit for something you haven't done, don't lie to us, and for goodness sake, don't tell us you're going to do something you aren't.

As for traitorous Republican congresspersons, we'll, we all know they exist and have acted against our cause repeatedly over the years.

You want names? Well, I can throw some of those your way too. How about Sen. Flake, Sen. Graham, Sen. Collins, Sen. Tillis, Sen. Gardner, Rep. Hurd, Rep. Taylor, Rep. Yoder, Rep. Spano, Rep. Waltz, Rep. Simpson, Rep. Braun, Rep. Watkins, Rep. Upton, Rep. Stauber, Rep. Guest, Rep. Hawley, Rep. Pappas, Rep. Chris Smith, Rep. Stefanik, Rep. Peter King, Rep. Gonzalez, Rep. Hern, Rep. Timmons, Rep. Johnson, Rep. Rose, Rep. Green, Rep. Gooden, Rep. Riggleman, Rep. Cline and Rep. McMorris. Rep. Poliguin, Rep. MacArthur, Rep. Meehan, Rep. Faso, Rep. Denham, Rep. Love, Rep. Newhouse.

I'm not sure how many of these folks are going home, but some of them are .... and that's a good thing in my book!

Well, I'm delighted with what this President has accomplished on immigration in such a short period of time. He ended the DACA Expansion, DAPA, and to the extent he could, DACA 2012. DACA 2012 has been sustained by a lawsuit and court ruling and made to continue. It will be going to the US Supreme Court in coming months.

Trump DAY FIVE issued an Executive Order to construct a wall/barrier on the southern border. There was nothing about concrete in it, it was a physical, contiguous, impassable barrier. DHS's later estimate for the wall was construction time of 3.5 years at a cost of $21.6 billion including land purchases upon which to build it. Trump negotiated for $1.6 billion for improvements to existing barriers 3 times and got it, and is now working on his 4th wall/barrier funding. The issue is the picket fence which is not a design that's been approved by Congress, that's the loophole that caused the whole breakdown in the deal, it's a much better design, but that gave the Dems an out, because it's not an "existing approved design". It's a Trump design so they're against it.

I don't really care why you hate this President, but it doesn't make any sense to me that you would diminish the things he's done to make things better for our mission. He's reduced refugee admissions, he's taking on the TPS crap, he got the travel ban, he removed asylum for illegal border crossers, he's slow go-ed legal asylum requests, he's send National Guard to border last spring, he sent 6,000 active military to the border this fall, he's negotiated a Remain in Mexico deal with Mexico, he's completed the new USMCA, he's withheld aid to Central America pending their stopping this crap out of their countries, he's closed the border for almost an entire day, he's researched and found ways and means to build the wall or at least major sections of it with unspent funds and the military, he's ended catch and release except for those protected by a federal court order or when numbers exceed detention capability, he's added judges to the immigration courts and expedited their reviews, he's taken on sanctuary cities, he's removed thousands of gang members including MS-13, he's going after public charges (welfare users) through a regulatory change, he's increased the vetting of every applicant for entry, he's ordered the repatriation of criminals, added multiple misdemeanors to the priority for deportation, he put together his 4 pillar list of 70 items for legislative action and used DACA as a bargaining chip to try to get the votes to pass it (and yes we opposed that effort, but I understand now why he tried it), and so forth.

So I am not disappointed at all. I am thrilled to have a President who fights for us on our issue every single day and has done so every single day since before DAY ONE. Am I going to agree with every approach or every manner of every effort? Probably not. I didn't agree with the DACA deal, and I don't agree with this government shutdown, but he's trying every which way but loose to improve this situation for our country and citizens, and I know he won't stop, he'll keep trying, and by doing so, he will have victories, one way or another, and for that, I will be eternally grateful.

Meanwhile he is also doing amazing things in other areas. Of all the different items on his agenda, the immigration issue is the most difficult because we're completely infiltrated by illegal aliens, all these pro-illegal alien promoters are on the take with the cartels, the courts are with illegal aliens not citizens, most metro area governments and heavily populated states are with the illegal aliens not citizens, so this is a tough issue to solve which is why no one else has solved it.

Can Trump solve it? He might have been able to solve it if Republicans had held on to the House in the mid-terms, because we increased our seats in the Senate. But now that we lost the US House of Representatives, I just don't know. If he solves it, it will be some creative set of actions through the Executive Branch and working through diplomatic channels with the source countries responsible for illegal immigration into the US to stop it on their ends, which is very doable, he's very creative, so we'll see what happens.

But thanks for standing up for your role in costing Republicans control of the US House of Representatives, I can see you're still read proud of that.

Originally Posted by Judy

Well, I'm delighted with what this President has accomplished on immigration in such a short period of time. He ended the DACA Expansion, DAPA, and to the extent he could, DACA 2012. DACA 2012 has been sustained by a lawsuit and court ruling and made to continue. It will be going to the US Supreme Court in coming months.

Trump DAY FIVE issued an Executive Order to construct a wall/barrier on the southern border. There was nothing about concrete in it, it was a physical, contiguous, impassable barrier. DHS's later estimate for the wall was construction time of 3.5 years at a cost of $21.6 billion including land purchases upon which to build it. Trump negotiated for $1.6 billion for improvements to existing barriers 3 times and got it, and is now working on his 4th wall/barrier funding. The issue is the picket fence which is not a design that's been approved by Congress, that's the loophole that caused the whole breakdown in the deal, it's a much better design, but that gave the Dems an out, because it's not an "existing approved design". It's a Trump design so they're against it.

I don't really care why you hate this President, but it doesn't make any sense to me that you would diminish the things he's done to make things better for our mission. He's reduced refugee admissions, he's taking on the TPS crap, he got the travel ban, he removed asylum for illegal border crossers, he's slow go-ed legal asylum requests, he's send National Guard to border last spring, he sent 6,000 active military to the border this fall, he's negotiated a Remain in Mexico deal with Mexico, he's completed the new USMCA, he's withheld aid to Central America pending their stopping this crap out of their countries, he's closed the border for almost an entire day, he's researched and found ways and means to build the wall or at least major sections of it with unspent funds and the military, he's ended catch and release except for those protected by a federal court order or when numbers exceed detention capability, he's added judges to the immigration courts and expedited their reviews, he's taken on sanctuary cities, he's removed thousands of gang members including MS-13, he's going after public charges (welfare users) through a regulatory change, he's increased the vetting of every applicant for entry, he's ordered the repatriation of criminals, added multiple misdemeanors to the priority for deportation, he put together his 4 pillar list of 70 items for legislative action and used DACA as a bargaining chip to try to get the votes to pass it (and yes we opposed that effort, but I understand now why he tried it), and so forth.

So I am not disappointed at all. I am thrilled to have a President who fights for us on our issue every single day and has done so every single day since before DAY ONE. Am I going to agree with every approach or every manner of every effort? Probably not. I didn't agree with the DACA deal, and I don't agree with this government shutdown, but he's trying every which way but loose to improve this situation for our country and citizens, and I know he won't stop, he'll keep trying, and by doing so, he will have victories, one way or another, and for that, I will be eternally grateful.

Meanwhile he is also doing amazing things in other areas. Of all the different items on his agenda, the immigration issue is the most difficult because we're completely infiltrated by illegal aliens, all these pro-illegal alien promoters are on the take with the cartels, the courts are with illegal aliens not citizens, most metro area governments and heavily populated states are with the illegal aliens not citizens, so this is a tough issue to solve which is why no one else has solved it.

Can Trump solve it? He might have been able to solve it if Republicans had held on to the House in the mid-terms, because we increased our seats in the Senate. But now that we lost the US House of Representatives, I just don't know. If he solves it, it will be some creative set of actions through the Executive Branch and working through diplomatic channels with the source countries responsible for illegal immigration into the US to stop it on their ends, which is very doable, he's very creative, so we'll see what happens.

But thanks for standing up for your role in costing Republicans control of the US House of Representatives, I can see you're still read proud of that.

You're living in a reality of your own making while the rest of us are living in the real reality of the here and now.

First off DAPA and the DACA expansion were overturned through the courts. A lower court ended those programs and the U.S. Supreme Court confirmed it through a tie. Trump just went through the motions with his executive orders. Of course you know that. Furthermore, Trump promised to end DACA immediately after moving into the White House. That did not happen. The only reason DACA is going to the U.S. Supreme Court for a ruling is because the Texas Attorney General and other states sued to end DACA and former U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, believing the program unconstitutional, refused to defend the program. All Trump did on DACA is break his promise to the American people! Trump did not want to end DACA.

Trump cannot construct his promised version of a border wall without congressional funding. To date he has not received one red cent to do so and not one mile of his promised border wall has been constructed. All that has went up at this point is a few miles of bollard fencing that was authorized during the Obama administration. Other than that all that has been done is fence maintenance, repairs and maybe a few upgrades on existing fence. So there is nothing out of the ordinary or nothing that wouldn't have been done regardless of who was sitting in the Oval Office. Unlike you, I will provide a link to explain and prove how Trump has repeatedly lied to us on this issue:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...ion-it-n888371

On the TPS "crap" as you call it. There are still TPS members getting extensions. And he has not removed the right to claim asylum to illegals as you claim. They are accepting asylum claims daily and by law illegal aliens have the right to claim asylum within one year of illegal entry. Oh, and there is no issue about a "picket fence." Trump drawing a bollard fence with pointy ends is not an issue. Actually, I thought it was sort of a funny medieval joke or something when I first saw it. Illegal can cap those points and climb right over them. Personally, I think the non-climbing plates are more suitable since Trump obviously isn't going to build his promised steel rebar reinforced concrete walls.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/05/62630...yemen-citizens

https://www.vox.com/2017/11/20/16682...otected-status

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...uscis-official

https://thehill.com/latino/404632-tr...or-salvadorans

https://www.nolo.com/legal-updates/t...nating-it.html

As we know there are still folks like Sen. Lindsey Graham that are attempting to keep TPS folks here permanently. He mentioned including them and DACA members in a deal for Trump's desired $5 billion dollars. So the TPS battle is still ongoing. I don't know of any of them that have actually been sent home yet. Unfortunately, until they're are officially gone they can still be saved by the Democrats and RINOs.

On the NAFTA2 you mentioned, it's a nothing burger until approved by the U.S. Congress.

Your comment regarding the cutting of aid to Central America is incorrect. All we've heard is threats. Honestly, I'm not even sure Trump can legally cut the aid without congressional approval. The U.S. House holds the purse strings. However, we have heard of a recent pledge made to Mexico and Central America for over $10 billion combined in aid. That's a whole heck of a lot considering they didn't receive a billion total last year.

As for taking on the sanctuary cities and MS-13, I think you'll find out most of that was Jeff Sessions' doing. The DOJ has been pretty quiet since Trump fired the best person he could have possibly had in that job all because of his failure to place our country's priorities over his personal desire to protect his own butt or maybe those of some of his family members.

Oh, and let's not pretend there haven't been disappointments and failures.

Oh and Trump approved another 115 miles of steel wall in Texas and construction starts later this month!

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh and Trump approved another 115 miles of steel wall in Texas and construction starts later this month!

I've learned what Trump doesn't say is almost as important as what he does say these days. I don't think anyone can claim with a straight face that Trump hasn't lied, stretched the truth, exaggerated or manipulated the facts to fit his agenda repeatedly.

If he did award such a contract for new fencing, it will probably be cancelled if he can't get the U.S. Congress to fund it. Oh, and many of us have learned to distinguish a fence from a wall.

Trump has the money for the new Texas section, that's the $1.3 billion that Chucky was worried about not having been spent yet. Trump took that off the table straight-away when he let the contract for the new 115 miles of fencing/wall in Texas.

But don't fret. Trump will succeed for our country and citizens without your support and in spite of your 2 year posting effort to harm his Presidency.

As to your DNC manufactured dispute over a steel fence versus a concrete wall, only you and the DemoQuacks care about that. No common sense earnest American gives one hoot about the difference between a beautiful steel fence (I prefer it) and a concrete wall (I don't like it because it complicates drainage, environmental issues, and you can't see through it). Americans who want a wall or big fence or whatever, just want something that works.

Originally Posted by Judy

Trump has the money for the new Texas section, that's the $1.3 billion that Chucky was worried about not having been spent yet. Trump took that off the table straight-away when he let the contract for the new 115 miles of fencing/wall in Texas.

But don't fret. Trump will succeed for our country and citizens without your support and in spite of your 2 year posting effort to harm his Presidency.

As to your DNC manufactured dispute over a steel fence versus a concrete wall, only you and the DemoQuacks care about that. No common sense earnest American gives one hoot about the difference between a beautiful steel fence (I prefer it) and a concrete wall (I don't like it because it complicates drainage, environmental issues, and you can't see through it). Americans who want a wall or big fence or whatever, just want something that works.

Unless that money you're speaking of has been specifically allocated for a NEW border wall, no such wall funding exist. Haven't you being paying attention at all? That's what this whole argument is about. There is no funding for a new wall ... none .... nada ..... zilch .... zero! You're like a fish on Trump's line and he consistently reels you in with everything he says.

There is no disputing the difference between a fence and an actual steel rebar reinforced concrete wall. The later is what Trump originally promised us to gain our votes. For me this is more about Trump lies than anything else. He has constantly and consistently lied to us about what going on with his fence for a while now. Calling a fence a wall doesn't make it so. Telling us you're building something you're not is a lie. You may respect and honor those who would act to deceive, but many folks don't.