Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Brian503a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California or ground zero of the invasion
    Posts
    16,029

    Illegal immigration concerns could split both parties

    http://www.stltoday.com

    Illegal immigration concerns could split both parties
    By Ron Harris
    POST-DISPATCH WASHINGTON BUREAU
    12/20/2005

    WASHINGTON

    In 1990, hardly a Spanish-speaking person could be found in California, Mo., population 4,106.

    That's not the case anymore. Today, Mexican immigrants are almost two of every 10 residents. They account for nearly 40 percent of the workers at the area's largest employers, three meat-processing plants.

    With them have come changes - special English classes in public schools, an increased demand for social services, occasional language barriers. And with those changes have come concerns that have echoed all the way back to Washington.

    With the House of Representatives' approval of a Republican-sponsored bill to tighten U.S. borders and increase penalties on illegal immigrants, Congress last week took the first steps into the murky waters of immigration.

    Early next year, the Senate will take up the issue, a complex subject that threatens to split both parties as lawmakers try to walk a tightrope between good policy and good politics. President George W. Bush has made immigration a top item on his domestic agenda, but his proposals - including a guest-worker program - have gone nowhere.

    Americans, polls show, are upset about the government's inability to control illegal immigration, which now accounts for about 11 million illegal residents inside the U.S. borders. They are particularly unhappy with Bush's handling of the issue. One poll showed that only 24 percent of those polled approved of his approach.

    Social conservatives see the massive influx of immigrants, nearly 8 million over the past five years, as a threat to American culture.

    Some despair of "Press 1 for English" telephone prompts, storefronts in Korean, Spanish, Chinese and Arabic or workers conversing in languages they don't understand.

    Job threat?

    Meanwhile, blue-collar workers feel threatened economically. They sense that immigrants, particularly illegal immigrants, are taking jobs that once went to them, or at the least, they are depressing local wages by providing cheap labor for unscrupulous employers. The American Chamber of Commerce estimates that 25 percent of dishwashers and drywall installers are illegal immigrants.

    That was one of Rep. Jo Ann Emerson's concerns when she voted for the immigration bill last week.

    "In my district, we've got a lot of illegal aliens in the construction industry, and I don't think that's right," said Emerson, R-Cape Girardeau. "I think it's important that we assure workers don't lose their jobs to illegal immigrants."

    Democrats Jerry Costello of Belleville and Ike Skelton of Lexington, Mo., joined Republicans from Missouri and Southern Illinois in voting for the bill. Other Democrats from Missouri voted against it.

    The split among lawmakers reflects that of the public on immigration, pollsters say.

    Half of those polled want a hard-line approach that would stiffen the borders, limit immigration and boot out the current illegal immigrants. They are adamantly opposed to a guest-worker program, and particularly any form of amnesty.

    The other half also want much tighter border security, but they also are amenable to a guest-worker program and a method to allow current residents to possibly earn citizenship.

    "There's no party divide on the issue, which is really interesting at a time when almost every issue is so partisan, "said Michael Dimock, associate director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. "The balance of opinion is split in each party."

    "For instance, on the question of guest workers, business-oriented Republicans like guest workers, but socially conservative Republicans or more blue-collar Republicans don't like it. They see immigrants as a burden on the country.

    "But working-class Democrats are just as concerned about the impact of immigrants on our culture," he said. "The fact is that there are people on both sides in both parties."

    House crackdown

    The House-passed bill called for increased border agents and vast fences along the Mexican border. The bill also would force employers to verify workers' legal status by checking their Social Security numbers through a national database or face fines of as much as $25,000 per violation.

    It brushed aside Bush's request for a guest worker program.

    Instead, it increased penalties for "coyotes," bandits who smuggle immigrants across the border for pay, often leaving them to die in the desert. It also made being an illegal immigrant a crime instead of a civil matter, and introduced legislation that would make anyone who helps or houses an illegal immigrant - including family members - a criminal as well.

    Under the legislation, the nation would spend more than $2.2 billion to build five border fences in California and Arizona, a length of 698 miles at a cost of $3.2 million per mile.

    An unusual coalition of religious, labor, business and ethnic groups, such as the American Chamber of Commerce, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Council of La Raza and the Service Employees International Union, have come out against the legislation, and many predict a similar bill will never pass the Senate.

    Critics say border enforcement and tighter penalties alone simply won't work and could even drive the current illegal residents deeper underground. They also argue that enforcement-only legislation refuses to recognize that American industry depends on immigrants to function.

    "One step at a time"

    Each year, the country absorbs about 500,000 illegal immigrant workers, many of them from Mexico, while the federal government grants only 5,000 permanent visas for low-skilled workers annually.

    Consequently, some, such as Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, argue for increasing the number of legal immigrants allowed.

    "The problem is that we have the number of legal immigrants set too low by law," Norquist said. "When you set the number below a reasonable number, all of the people above it are illegal."

    Immigrants are not replacing American workers, industry officials say. Instead, they are filling a labor void.

    "They're not stealing jobs from Americans, at least certainly not around here," said John Roberts, general manager for Cargill Meat Solutions Corp. in California, Mo., west of Jefferson City. "There seem to be plenty of jobs available, and our unemployment is rather low in the area."

    Some senators are beginning to voice support for an immigration bill sponsored by Sens. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., and John McCain, R-Ariz. The bill calls for tighter border security but also includes a guest-worker program and a process for legalizing, even if only temporarily, the millions of illegal immigrants already working in America.

    Many House Republicans say they will never support such a program, which could make any significant immigration reform extremely difficult, if not impossible.

    "This is the first step in a process," said Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill. "We're the House. We always have to lead from the conservative side of the issue. The Senate is more liberal. The president is still part of this debate, and I think people know where he is on the subject. It's one step at a time."
    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at http://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  2. #2
    TimBinh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Mexifornia
    Posts
    413

    Re: Illegal immigration concerns could split both parties

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian503a

    Critics say border enforcement and tighter penalties alone simply won't work and could even drive the current illegal residents deeper underground. They also argue that enforcement-only legislation refuses to recognize that American industry depends on immigrants to function.
    'Without slaves, who will pick the cotton?"

    That is basically the argument businesses are making.

    As for the critics that say enforcement won't work, why not try it for a change and see? Amnesy has been tried several times, and now we have more illegal aliens than ever.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Lonetree, CO
    Posts
    543
    Then maybe the independents will emerge as the victors.
    "I can because I will, I will because I can" ME

  4. #4
    Senior Member Scubayons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    3,210
    Quote Originally Posted by rakishoner
    Then maybe the independents will emerge as the victors.
    That would be a good thing. We need some Checks and balancing. I think is coming and coming quickly. Being raised in a Democratic Family. I was told that the Republicans was for Big Business and Democrats was for the working.
    Now thinking of the Ole saying of Wolf in Sheeps clothing.

    If the Repulicans are the wolfs, then that makes the Democrats, Wolfs in Sheeps clothing. I can't see a difference in them.
    http://www.alipac.us/
    You can not be loyal to two nations, without being unfaithful to one. Scubayons 02/07/06

  5. #5
    Senior Member JuniusJnr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,557
    Then maybe the independents will emerge as the victors.
    Good! And then Americans will be the winners for a change.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Saxon Tree Goddess
    Posts
    1,073
    Tim ,that is a great summation " " without slaves, who will pick the cotton"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    55,883
    TimBinh--"without slaves, who will pick the cotton" is an excellent summation.

    I agree with you thelma!

    And it would be a great name for a documentary.

    But there is an answer to the query! AMERICANS

    America has been through this before. American Citizens, even Johnny Cash's family, picked their cotton without slaves. Only rich plantation owners could afford slaves. Thousands of small farmers picked their own cotton and hundreds of thousands probably millions of other small farmers planted, tended, and picked every other item of produce this country has produced throughout its history.

    We never needed slaves.

    We never needed illegal migrants.

    We probaby never needed legal migrants for that matter.

    In any event, it's not a national problem. It's a business problem that is solved with market supply and demand. Hire American Citizens, pay them the wage it takes to draw their interest; price your products accordingly; and then STFU!

    We don't change our laws designed to ensure our sustainability and sovereignty for anyone's planter, tender or picker problems.

    Got it?

    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  8. #8
    TimBinh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Mexifornia
    Posts
    413
    Quote Originally Posted by thelmahopkins
    Tim ,that is a great summation " " without slaves, who will pick the cotton"
    Thanks, but I did not come up with it. It was former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm who coined the phrase, to illustrate how unnescesary and immoral illegal labor is. Say it every time a cheap foreign labor advocate says we need their labor.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    55,883
    Richard Lamm, isn't he the one that spell-bound an audience in DC with that amazing speech on how to end a nation?

    We had that speech posted on ALIPAC some time back.

    We need to find it and post it here again.

    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  10. #10
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    55,883
    Here it is..it was one of mine:

    http://alipac.us/ftopict-6096-richard.html+lamm

    It's called Good Bye America.

    GOODBYE, AMERICA....

    We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In
    that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week
    there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in
    Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest
    minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor
    Hanson Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia,"
    explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was
    destroying the entire state of California. He said it would
    march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The
    American Dream.

    Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up
    and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The
    audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the
    destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe
    that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then
    let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in
    history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee
    observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that "An
    au! topsy of history would show that all great nations commit
    suicide.'" "Here is how they do it," Lamm said:


    First, to destroy America, "Turn America into a bilingual or
    multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no
    nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two
    or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for
    an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a
    society to be bilingual." The historical scholar Seymour Lipset
    put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bicultural
    societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil,
    tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all
    face crises of national existence in which minorities press for
    autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have
    divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces
    difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

    Lamm went on:


    Second, to destroy America, "Invent multiculturalism and
    encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it
    an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are
    no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith
    that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice
    and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is
    out of bounds.


    Third, "We could make the United States a ' Hispanic Quebec'
    without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather
    than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly
    recently: The apparent success of our own mul! tiethnic and
    multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by
    tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once
    dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American,
    we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us
    together.'"

    Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own
    language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor
    with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we
    have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing
    their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their
    similarities."

    "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the
    least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated,
    undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have
    this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

    "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big
    foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I
    would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult
    of Victimology. I would get all minorities to think their lack
    of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a
    grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority
    population."

    "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual
    citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate
    diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than
    similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in
    hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each
    other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most
    historical prece! dent. People undervalue the unity it takes to
    keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks
    believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a
    common language and literature; and they worshipped the same
    gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy
    Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not
    strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and
    geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions.
    Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that
    historical reality, if we put the em! phasis on th
    "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it
    taboo to talk about anything against the cult of diversity.' I
    would find a word similar to heretic in the 16th century - that
    stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like racist or
    xenophobe halt discussion and debate." "Having made America a
    bilingual/bicultural country, having established
    multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine
    of Victimology, I would next make it impossible to enforce our
    immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because
    immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I
    would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the
    cumulative impact of millions of them."

    In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow.
    Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would
    censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is
    dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel
    America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

    There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an
    ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every
    American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was
    proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across
    the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed.
    Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational
    system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that
    practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate
    diversity. American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as
    corporations create a Third World in America - take note of
    California and other states - to date, ten million illegal
    aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's
    book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the
    Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is
    slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

    Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at
    the conference that our nation and the future of this great
    democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't
    get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will
    rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its
    path, especially The American Dream.

    _______________________

    A friend sent this to me. Seems fitting for the week of the 4th of July in America, don't you think? The similarities are stark and the reality upon us. STAND UP AMERICA!! WAKE UP AMERICA!! Get involved, join ALIPAC, DO SOMETHING TO SAVE YOUR NATION...because you are nothing without it.

    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •