Thread: Illegals don't belong in Va

http://www.timescommunity.com/site/t...d=506071&rfi=6

By Peggy Een, Warrenton
11/01/2005

People who are not in Virginia legally should not be in Virginia at all.

It's a pretty simple concept, but Jerry Kilgore seems to be the only candidate in this year's governor's race who truly understands how illegal immigration harms our commonwealth.

Kilgore won't allow taxpayer dollars to fund job centers for illegal immigrants, and he won't allow the government to give illegal immigrants driver's licenses and college tuitions.

Note: Peggy Een is president of the Republican Women's Club.

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I might even risk crossing the Mason-Dixon line to vote for this guy!

You tell 'em Jerry! The US has the second highest per capita GDP in the world and the highest in its history. Our most pressing health problems are caused by obesity and lack of exercise. K-12 education provided for almost all children. A wide assortment of post K-12 educational opportunities that everyone can take advantage of. A standard of living that people 30 years ago dared not dream of. Yeah! We're suffering. Immigration has just devasted our nation.

The US has the second highest per capita GDP in the world and the highest in its history.

Not to mention record debts and the value of the dollar at an all time low.

Our most pressing health problems are caused by obesity and lack of exercise.

Oh no, it would have nothing to do with the multitude of diseases brought on by the millions of third world illegal aliens flooding the border that we wouldn't even have to waste money on combating if Bush would do his job and enforce our immigration laws and secure our borders. Does anybody think we'd have to waste another 7 billion to fight this so called bird flu if it wasn't for Bush's reckless open borders policies? I sure don't.

K-12 education provided for almost all children. A wide assortment of post K-12 educational opportunities that everyone can take advantage of.

Yeah that's explains why we have a program like No Child Left Behind that promotes failure at every level of education, but hey at least your kids will be forced to learn Spanish instead of English. At least your kids can learn how to be a Muslim for a day instead of learning their ABC's. Or your kids can learn how to shove a condom on a cucumber.

Please our educational system is in shambles. Our schools are overcrowded with invaders, we have terribly high iliteracy rates among hispanics and blacks. I mean come on, I'm in the military and I have recruiters tell me that we have tons of kids who try to enter the military, but despite graduating high school they can't get into the military because they get Asvab scores in the single digits. That's just pathetic.

A standard of living that people 30 years ago dared not dream of.

Stop with the RNC talking points, it's really getting old. A standard of living that people 30 years ago dare not dream of? Hhhmmm. Let me digest that for a minute. You mean like living 30 people to an apartment complex? Maybe you mean working 16 hours in a field or a sweatshop earning slave wages while busting your back? Or maybe you meant paying 350K for a small townhouse while you are lucky to make 50K a year and paying a mortgage that takes up your entire two week paycheck and then some? Or maybe you meant paying high premiums on health insurance while illegal alien freeloaders get free health care at the emergency rooms? How about having your neighborhood which was once nice and peaceful being overrun by illegal alien gangsters and drug lords? You must have meant something when you posted that gibberish right?

Immigration has just devasted our nation.

What gated community do you live in? I'd be more than happy to take you for a drive down town and show you what real life is truely like.

Originally Posted by dman1200

Not to mention record debts and the value of the dollar at an all time low.

Our collective fiscal irresponsibility and narcissistic lifestyle are blamed on immigration now. That’s pathetic. And the dollar is NOT at an all time low for your information. The fact that you aren’t aware of this says that you don’t spend much time reading the news. The value of the dollar is actually historically high and is believed by some to contribute to the trade deficit.

Does anybody think we'd have to waste another 7 billion to fight this so called bird flu if it wasn't for Bush's reckless open borders policies? I sure don't.

The bird flu is spread by migrating birds against which there is no law. Again, your ignorance of current events is astonishing.

Please our educational system is in shambles…..

What’s pathetic is that, in most instances, it’s not the fault of the schools themselves but of the students and parents. The education is available and millions of students take advantage of that every day. The fact that some are too lazy and undisciplined is certainly not the fault of immigrants.

A standard of living that people 30 years ago dare not dream of? Hhhmmm. Let me digest that for a minute. You mean like living 30 people to an apartment complex?

I’ve seen apartment complexes that have thousands of people living in them, and some of them are very luxurious. But not everyone lives in apartments since home ownership is at an all time high.

Maybe you mean working 16 hours in a field or a sweatshop earning slave wages while busting your back?

Hardly anyone is working under those conditions. Most Americans experience much better working conditions. It’s hard to get someone to work in a sweatshop or a field for slave wages with an unemployment rate so low and jobs available in many locations.

Or maybe you meant paying 350K for a small townhouse while you are lucky to make 50K a year and paying a mortgage that takes up your entire two week paycheck and then some?

First of all, making $50k a year is not a matter of luck given the educational opportunities mentioned earlier. Barring any health problems it’s really not a big deal. And again the vast amounts of immigrant labor in the construction industry has helped America build more $350k houses than they otherwise would have been able to.

Or maybe you meant paying high premiums on health insurance while illegal alien freeloaders get free health care at the emergency rooms?

First of all, immigrants don’t get free health care at emergency rooms. They are required to pay, and if they don’t then someone else must either the government or the provider by reducing its profit. There is no free health care. A large percentage of people in the health care industry are immigrants including many doctors. That’s ironic. Isn’t it? Cuba sends doctors all over the third world. We import doctors from the third world. Pathetic. Without that immigrant labor we just plain would not be able to provide the medical care that we do provide.

Our collective fiscal irresponsibility and narcissistic lifestyle are blamed on immigration now.

The number one supplier of drugs is coming south of the border. Who do you think peddles it in? White Europeans?

And the dollar is NOT at an all time low for your information. The fact that you aren’t aware of this says that you don’t spend much time reading the news. The value of the dollar is actually historically high and is believed by some to contribute to the trade deficit.

Dumbest statement of the year award. The reason why our trade debt is so high is because we are importing alot more than we are exporting. Third world countries get to dump their crap on our shores at dirt cheap rates while we have to pay huge tariffs for exporting our goods. The value of the dollar is decreasing not only because of our trade policies, but because we are borrowing money and spending at record rates. I don't know where you get your info from about the value of the dollar is at a historic high when almost every reputable source says otherwise. If the value of our dollar was high then we wouldn't need to be borrowing so much money and we sure as heck wouldn't be in so much debt.

The bird flu is spread by migrating birds against which there is no law. Again, your ignorance of current events is astonishing.

If you don't think this isn't attributed to Bush's open borders policies where he doesn't even make an effort to police what comes into this country and what doesn't then I have some swamp land in Florida I love to sell you. You call me ignorant, but yet you come at me with this nonsense? Next.

What’s pathetic is that, in most instances, it’s not the fault of the schools themselves but of the students and parents. The education is available and millions of students take advantage of that every day. The fact that some are too lazy and undisciplined is certainly not the fault of immigrants.

So it's the fault of the parents and students who are citizens of this country that our schools are overcrowded with foreigners and illegal aliens and they can't get a decent education because most of the schools funds are sapped in order to accomodate the masses? How can these students get a decent education when there are at avg 40-50 to a class room and half of the ciriculum is taught in English and the other half in whatever foreign language is the flavor of the month? Yes, sometimes it is the fault of the students and parents, but in most schools they aren't exactly in an environment where they can succeed.

I’ve seen apartment complexes that have thousands of people living in them, and some of them are very luxurious. But not everyone lives in apartments since home ownership is at an all time high.

Yeah and the cost of housing is at an all time high because we as a country are running out of living space so decent housing is becoming a premium. These illegals cram these places 30-40 per home on a house or an apartment that was meant to house at the most 4 or 5 people. The more people we bring into the country, the higher the cost of housing will go up. Get it yet?

Hardly anyone is working under those conditions. Most Americans experience much better working conditions. It’s hard to get someone to work in a sweatshop or a field for slave wages with an unemployment rate so low and jobs available in many locations.

Now your spewing propaganda from the RNC. You talk to any American who has or still works in the labor market and they will tell you different. Immigrants are driving down the wages and the working conditions because they are willing to live like peasants and work for dirt poor wages. That is a fact. Unemployment rate thing is a myth. The government only reports the unemployment rate of those still receiving unemployment benefits. Once those individuals stop receiving their unemployment, the government stops counting them as being unemployed so they drop off the radar. So they end up making the unemployment stats look alot lower then they should be. They skew the facts to fool the masses. It's no secret that immigrants both legal and illegal take jobs at dirt wages, don't get paid any benefits and not only do they not pay taxes, but the employers don't either. Plus if the immigrant gets hurt on the job, they go to the emergency room and the tax payers foot the bill. Oh and the jobs that are available are only low paying minial jobs that usually either get outsourced or go to illegal alien labor. Most of those jobs aren't even advertised.

First of all, making $50k a year is not a matter of luck given the educational opportunities mentioned earlier. Barring any health problems it’s really not a big deal. And again the vast amounts of immigrant labor in the construction industry has helped America build more $350k houses than they otherwise would have been able to.

Yeah and if we weren't taking in so many of these so called immigrants we wouldn't have to build so many freaking houses and we could have possibly saved a lot of the natural resources we have depleted over the years and could have done far less damage to our environment. Not to mention decent housing would be alot cheaper too. Health problems not a big deal? Do you realize what kind of diseases these third worlders bring in? I'm not sure you comprehend this. They are bringing in diseases that we either have never heard of or had combated and eliminated decades ago, centuries even. You need to do some research on this before calling people ignorant.

First of all, immigrants don’t get free health care at emergency rooms. They are required to pay, and if they don’t then someone else must either the government or the provider by reducing its profit. There is no free health care.

Oh stop it already, dude I just about spit my soda all over my monitor when I read this. How can I take you seriously when you are spewing these outrageous lies? Immigrants don't get free health care at emergency rooms? Then explain to me why half of the hospitals in CA are closing off their emergency rooms then? When you say the government pays, uh pay what? The government doesn't pay anything. You and I pick up the tab. Where do you think the government gets the funds from? Do you think Bush pays for it out of his own wallet? No you and I and the rest of us taxpayers do. Get it yet?

A large percentage of people in the health care industry are immigrants including many doctors. That’s ironic. Isn’t it? Cuba sends doctors all over the third world. We import doctors from the third world. Pathetic. Without that immigrant labor we just plain would not be able to provide the medical care that we do provide.

Oh so I guess the most powerful nation on earth can't get citizens to become qualified doctors now, is that it? My gosh, stop with the insanity. You sound like a complete fool and a Bush bot. I can't believe I even read your post because I feel like I just lost 100 points on my IQ just by doing so. We don't need any immigrant labor. We can do these jobs ourselves just like we did before they showed up.

Originally Posted by dman1200

Dumbest statement of the year award. The reason why our trade debt is so high is because we are importing alot more than we are exporting.

That is correct, and if you had the ability to comprehend an economics textbook, then you would be able to read one and know that the strong dollar works to encourage that.

Third world countries get to dump their crap on our shores at dirt cheap rates while we have to pay huge tariffs for exporting our goods.

This is false. Thanks to multi-lateral trade agreements, tariffs throughout the world are historically low for U.S. exports. At this point I am not going to accuse you of lying even though this is well known. You really seem to not know this.

I don't know where you get your info from about the value of the dollar is at a historic high when almost every reputable source says otherwise.

I didn’t say it was at a historic high. I said that the value of the dollar is historically high meaning that in light of history the dollar is high i.e. compared to the value of the dollar throughout its history. We’ve had a strong dollar for two decades, and interestingly enough the past two decades have seen an increase in our trade deficit. This is called empirical evidence.

If the value of our dollar was high then we wouldn't need to be borrowing so much money and we sure as heck wouldn't be in so much debt.

We need to borrow so much money because we consume beyond our income. And the fact that the dollar of the value is high means we can borrow at better rates. If the value of the dollar were low, this would render the cost of imports to be much higher in dollar terms thereby discouraging imports and thereby reducing the trade deficit.

Quote:
The bird flu is spread by migrating birds against which there is no law. Again, your ignorance of current events is astonishing.


If you don't think this isn't attributed to Bush's open borders policies where he doesn't even make an effort to police what comes into this country and what doesn't then I have some swamp land in Florida I love to sell you.

What policy do you suggest would stop migrating birds?

So it's the fault of the parents and students who are citizens of this country that our schools are overcrowded with foreigners and illegal aliens and they can't get a decent education because most of the schools funds are sapped in order to accomodate [sic] the masses?

They schools are not overcrowded, and students can get a decent education as evidenced by the tens of millions of students who are doing so today. At this point I do accuse you of lying because you have no evidence to support your statement, and you certainly didn’t read it anywhere.

How can these students get a decent education when there are at avg 40-50 to a class room and half of the ciriculum [sic] is taught in English and the other half in whatever foreign language is the flavor of the month?

Another lie. The average students per classroom is not 40-50, and English speaking students are taught in English (except when studying foreign languages, but that goes without saying).

These illegals cram these places 30-40 per home on a house or an apartment that was meant to house at the most 4 or 5 people.

And that is probably an improvement in the living conditions of many of them, and it causes absolutely no harm to you.

Immigrants are driving down the wages

Reports of studies of this have concluded that immigration has had a miniscule effect on wages.

Unemployment rate thing is a myth. The government only reports the unemployment rate of those still receiving unemployment benefits. Once those individuals stop receiving their unemployment, the government stops counting them as being unemployed so they drop off the radar

This is false. The unemployment rate is estimated by a survey. The number of people collecting unemployment benefits is not considered in the DOL’s calculation of the unemployment rate.

Oh and the jobs that are available are only low paying minial [sic] jobs that usually either get outsourced or go to illegal alien labor. Most of those jobs aren't even advertised.

The number of payroll jobs in the nation is the highest it’s ever been according to DOL calculations.

Health problems not a big deal? Do you realize what kind of diseases these third worlders bring in? I'm not sure you comprehend this. They are bringing in diseases that we either have never heard of or had combated and eliminated decades ago, centuries even

Very few have brought in these diseases.

Oh so I guess the most powerful nation on earth can't get citizens to become qualified doctors now, is that it?

False. Many U.S. citizens are doctors and more are currently studying medicine.

We don't need any immigrant labor. We can do these jobs ourselves just like we did before they showed up.

Before they showed up there were only Indians living here, and they lived a subsistence lifestyle.

I'm going to be direct with you. You are a little short of knowledge on economics and current events. I would suggest you read and watch the news at least a little bit every day.

I didn’t say it was at a historic high. I said that the value of the dollar is historically high meaning that in light of history the dollar is high i.e. compared to the value of the dollar throughout its history.

TamÄ?to/Tamăto, you are still trying to say that the value of a dollar is significantly high. The dollar is still sinking in value day by day. You are trying to make inflation sound like a good thing “manâ€?. With logic like that the feds will push me out of my house and I will have to move else where. Then you will try and say that my “newâ€? purchase of a house is a “goodâ€? sign of economic growth. There is a world beyond that nose Pinocchio, try looking past it.

And the fact that the dollar of the value is high means we can borrow at better rates. If the value of the dollar were low, this would render the cost of imports to be much higher in dollar terms thereby discouraging imports and thereby reducing the trade deficit.

Obviously you don’t study Chinese economics. They wouldn’t let this happen; they would sink the value of their yen even more.

What policy do you suggest would stop migrating birds?

What do you suggest when it mutates? Quarantine camps? Eyh Gestapo!

We need to borrow so much money because we consume beyond our income.

Again you don’t pay attention to true factual economics. When you import everything, export all the jobs what are you left with? A shrinking job base (that you naively think is strong, sounds like you have eaten too many poopsicles.) and a family to support. Not to mention a growing socialistic (this is where the “free ride� illegals come in if you needed it pointed out to you) fascist (corporate America) nation wrapping its hands around your neck.

Another lie. The average students per classroom is not 40-50, and English speaking students are taught in English (except when studying foreign languages, but that goes without saying).

Oh so it may be 30-35, huge gap there. As for the language, that is just a matter of time, in fact it is obviouse you don’t read much “man�. http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-11892.html

And that is probably an improvement in the living conditions of many of them, and it causes absolutely no harm to you.

I beg your pardon!?

How about dropping my property value for one, I would like to make some equity in my home purchase! Not to mention the drugs coming in and out of those homes, going into the hands of our children. The criminal activities as well, don’t even try and down play that “man�.

Reports of studies of this have concluded that immigration has had a miniscule effect on wages.

Bogus poopsicle you are peddling here, take it back. “Reports of Studies�, blah that is crap. Show us the money son, give us your citations and prove something for once.

This is false. The unemployment rate is estimated by a survey. The number of people collecting unemployment benefits is not considered in the DOL’s calculation of the unemployment rate.

Yes it is false. It is actually worse than he mentioned. Not only is the FACT that those that are NOT COLLECTING dropped from radar. But those that go to school to reeducate their selves because they were displaced or outsourced are not included. If you are forced into a low paying job just to have some kind of income to help support your family, you are dropped from the radar.

Your misguided rhetoric is flimsy at best “man�.

Very few have brought in these diseases.

Citations please. Ellis Island prevented all diseases!

False. Many U.S. citizens are doctors and more are currently studying medicine.

Make up your mind. Either spew the propaganda from the “pro-outsourcing� fascists, or the American worker. Your tongue is starting to resemble a fork now.

I'm going to be direct with you. You are a little short of knowledge on economics and current events. I would suggest you read and watch the news at least a little bit every day.

Humm this coming from a troll! The sad thing is that you do watch the news and you eat all those nutty poopsicles and regurgitate all that deception as fact and nothing to back it up, you are a petty clone with no mind of his own.

Originally Posted by rakishoner

you are still trying to say that the value of a dollar is significantly high.

I say that because it’s true.

The dollar is still sinking in value day by day.

It is true that the value of the dollar has declined significantly over the past couple of years. When something is overvalued, it tends to eventually come down.

You are trying to make inflation sound like a good thing “man�.

First of all, I never said that a highly valued dollar is a good or bad thing. I just stated a fact. Second, a strong dollar is not inflation. In fact, it is just the opposite. In the 70s when inflation was high, the value of the dollar was much lower than it is now. In the 80s and 90s when inflation was reduced was when the dollar began to increase in dollar. High inflation would put downward pressure on the value of the dollar and vice versa. Before the value of the dollar started declining a couple of years ago, Greenspan expressed concern about deflation.

Quote:
And the fact that the dollar of the value is high means we can borrow at better rates. If the value of the dollar were low, this would render the cost of imports to be much higher in dollar terms thereby discouraging imports and thereby reducing the trade deficit.
Obviously you don’t study Chinese economics. They wouldn’t let this happen; they would sink the value of their yen even more.

The Chinese don’t control the value of the dollar. They control the value of their currency as it is pegged to the dollar. This does not affect the value of the dollar with respect to other countries’ currencies.

Quote:
We need to borrow so much money because we consume beyond our income.
Again you don’t pay attention to true factual economics. When you import everything, export all the jobs what are you left with? A shrinking job base (that you naively think is strong...)

Again, I never said it was good or bad. In fact, consuming more than one produces over the long-term is not a good thing.

Quote:
And that is probably an improvement in the living conditions of many of them, and it causes absolutely no harm to you.

I beg your pardon!? How about dropping my property value for one, I would like to make some equity in my home purchase!

There is no evidence that a lot of people living in a house has severe adverse effects on the property values of other units.

Not to mention the drugs coming in and out of those homes, going into the hands of our children. The criminal activities as well, don’t even try and down play that “man�.

I’m not playing that down. Certainly, criminal activity is bad. But the fact that a black guy is a criminal is not an indictment against all black people, and a bunch of immigrants living peacefully in a house has absolutely no effect on anyone else. My point was that a bunch of people living in a house doesn't affect dman. Obviously, if those people are dealing drugs, running a brothel or detonating nuclear weapons, then it changes the facts.

Quote:
Reports of studies of this have concluded that immigration has had a miniscule effect on wages.

Bogus poopsicle you are peddling here, take it back. “Reports of Studies�, blah that is crap. Show us the money son, give us your citations and prove something for once.

www.phil.frb.org/econ/conf/immigration/card.pdf

Quote:
Very few have brought in these diseases.

Citations please. Ellis Island prevented all diseases!

Citations. The fact that there are so few citations. I dispute the fact that Ellis Island prevent all diseases. That's an irresponsible statement, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up with.

Make up your mind. Either spew the propaganda from the “pro-outsourcing� fascists, or the American worker.

Again, I merely stated facts.

And I will restate it again: in the US we are living in a time of unprecedented prosperity. The US has the second highest per capita GDP in the world and the highest in its history. Never before has our nation been so wealthy. Our most pressing health problems are caused by obesity and lack of exercise. K-12 education provided for almost all children. A wide assortment of post K-12 educational opportunities that everyone can take advantage of. A standard of living that people 30 years ago dared not dream of.

MAN Quote

First of all, immigrants don’t get free health care at emergency rooms. They are required to pay, and if they don’t then someone else must either the government or the provider by reducing its profit. There is no free health care. A large percentage of people in the health care industry are immigrants including many doctors. That’s ironic. Isn’t it? Cuba sends doctors all over the third world. We import doctors from the third world. Pathetic. Without that immigrant labor we just plain would not be able to provide the medical care that we do provide.

First of all Immigrants don't get free health care. I should know since me wife is a Legal Immigrant. But you have to put the term in the right aspect. There is a difference in Legal Immigrant and Illegal Immigrant.

Illegals Immigrants are getting free Health Care.

Just a little quote from

Steve Escoboza, spokesman for the Healthcare Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties.

Steve Escoboza, spokesman for the Healthcare Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties agrees that “at least the federal government has recognized this burden, and it’s a significant movement in the right direction.� But Ann Pumpian, CEO of Sharp Healthcare claims “it isn’t coming close to covering the costs of services we provide. San Diego County alone has given illegals more than $100 million every year.� So the problem looms large as the entirety of California will only receive a total of $70 million with San Diego only expecting to get 15% or about $10 million per year of the total amount. According to Jan Emerson, a spokeswoman for the California Hospital Association, “California hospitals provide $500 million in emergency care for illegal immigrants, seven times the amount of the federal grant.� But Emerson did also say, “This is a highly symbolic first step. The federal government is finally acknowledging that it has a responsibility to pay for heath care
provided for illegal immigrants.�

You can find more on there web site.

http://www.chcf.org/search/index.cfm

Now here is what President Bush just did earlier this year.

On May 10, 2005 the Bush administration announced the specifics relating to new funding for hospitals and doctors who provide free emergency medical care to illegal aliens. The amount of reimbursement will total $1 billion dollars until September 2008 and is meant to stave the continual closings of hospitals predominant in California and other border states.


Now as for these quote of yours Man

I'm going to be direct with you. You are a little short of knowledge on economics and current events. I would suggest you read and watch the news at least a little bit every day

It is not economical feasible to sustain health care when there is not money coming in. You can substain for a while, but when the well runs dry. It is shut the doors.
As for current events. I think we are up on them. But we just haven't got selective eye sight.