Thread: Irish in America Must Support Undocumented, Says Minister

Irish in America must support undocumented, says Minister Micheal Martin

By
FRIEDA KLOTZ,
IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

The Irish population in America should rally around immigration reform, said Micheal Martin, Minister for Foreign Affairs, in New York on Saturday.

Martin said that lobbyists were hopeful that reform might take place in the first three months of 2010, and the question of undocumented Irish will be part of a comprehensive review of the immigration system.

The government had lobbied intensively, he added.

“The Irish government has articulated our concerns to Obama himself. And there’s a need for the community here to be supportive,â€

Quote:
"Last month at the Farmleigh Conference in Dublin, the Minister promised to set up a global Irish network, and to develop an online portal to connect the diaspora with Ireland."

"Diaspora: the dispersion of the Jews after the end of the Babylonian captivity" (Oxford American Dictionary)

I am the great-granddaughter of an Irish immigrant. The truth is that people left Ireland in droves beginning in the 19th Century after the Irish Potato Famine because much of the population was starving to death. Many of them, sadly, begged to get on rickity ships leaving Ireland without any specified destination simply to get out. Many got no farther than the Irish Sea, where they drowned as these overloaded vessels sank.

In my opinion, much of the suffering of the Irish people has been brought on by the overwhelming influence of the Roman Catholic Church, which prohibits limiting family and national population growth in any responsible manner (from responsible methods I exclude abortion except in cases of rape or health emergency). To try to lay responsbility for the albeit tragic poverty in Ireland during much of its recent history at the door of other nations, and to imply that the Irish scattered across the face of the globe to escape "captivity" rather than economic conditions in their own country often tied to family overpopulation beyond a family's-and the nation's- ability to support its own is not only inaccurate but wrong. The United States takes more legal immigrants each year than any other nation; we do not need to take more.

My grandfather came here as a youngster, LEGALLY, and even fought with US troops in WWI. He was a super Catholic, and the family tree drips with bishops and archbishops way back.
The laws of this land are the responsibility of the legislature, and the ability of foreigners to influence that process in any way is horrific. For religion to interfere with that process, as so many churches, synagogues and mosques have been doing, is even more worrisome. They should teach us the laws of God and the responsibility of being a good person, but so many of them in this country have violated the separation of church and state.

Originally Posted by vortex

My grandfather came here as a youngster, LEGALLY, and even fought with US troops in WWI. He was a super Catholic, and the family tree drips with bishops and archbishops way back.
The laws of this land are the responsibility of the legislature, and the ability of foreigners to influence that process in any way is horrific. For religion to interfere with that process, as so many churches, synagogues and mosques have been doing, is even more worrisome. They should teach us the laws of God and the responsibility of being a good person, but so many of them in this country have violated the separation of church and state.

I think this question of church-state separation is very valid. Religious groups are now telling our government to ignore its policies and make new citizens. Besides being a partisan position within US politics as it stands now, it is an intrusion into essential state affairs, not just policies.

Where does on draw the line? Religious groups frequently take stands on issues, within the protection of the First Amendment. How does citizenship differ from an issue?

And on an additional note---Americans United for Separation of Church and State will never address this concern. They will hardly ever address anything that matters to conservatives.

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Quote:
"Last month at the Farmleigh Conference in Dublin, the Minister promised to set up a global Irish network, and to develop an online portal to connect the diaspora with Ireland."

"Diaspora: the dispersion of the Jews after the end of the Babylonian captivity" (Oxford American Dictionary)

I am the great-granddaughter of an Irish immigrant. The truth is that people left Ireland in droves beginning in the 19th Century after the Irish Potato Famine because much of the population was starving to death. Many of them, sadly, begged to get on rickity ships leaving Ireland without any specified destination simply to get out. Many got no farther than the Irish Sea, where they drowned as these overloaded vessels sank.

In my opinion, much of the suffering of the Irish people has been brought on by the overwhelming influence of the Roman Catholic Church, which prohibits limiting family and national population growth in any responsible manner (from responsible methods I exclude abortion except in cases of rape or health emergency). To try to lay responsbility for the albeit tragic poverty in Ireland during much of its recent history at the door of other nations, and to imply that the Irish scattered across the face of the globe to escape "captivity" rather than economic conditions in their own country often tied to family overpopulation beyond a family's-and the nation's- ability to support its own is not only inaccurate but wrong. The United States takes more legal immigrants each year than any other nation; we do not need to take more.

Do I agree with the Irish government butting their nose into our immigration policies, the answer to that is NO!!! Do I agree with our government butting their nose into other countries business? The answer to that is NO. Do all of the Irish agree with Mr. Martin? Hell No, most that I have spoken with call him a knacker. It is no different than the entire US being lumped together with Obama and his Czars. Or saying we were in lock-step with Bush. It isn't so. However, to twist this into an anti-catholic argument is pathetic.

I am going to hold my peace no more. I am sick and tired of the catholic bashing that goes on here! I don't know how many of you pious people have read the numbers alert, but the protestants are doing more than their fair share in pushing for amnesty.

As for the family size being the problem in the potato famine, perhaps you should read your history books. Did you know that their was more than enough food to feed the Irish population? There was enough wheat and corn to more than provide for the Irish when the potato crop failed. But the PROTESTANT English exported this life saving grain to feed the ANIMALS in the UK. Yes, these holier than the Catholic Protestants intentionally and deliberately attempted to starve the entire population to death!! Did you know that the US and a number of other countries shipped tons of food to Ireland and the PROTESTANT BRITISH Made it rot on the decks and imprisoned any of the starving that tried to take some to feed their children? I have had it with the hypocritical attitudes of those trying to blame our political problems on religion!

cayla99 wrote:
"I am going to hold my peace no more. I am sick and tired of the catholic bashing that goes on here!"

I believe that when he was a member of Congress Tom Tancredo published a list of religious organizations (including their charities) which he believed should be excluded from tax-exempt status in the United States based on their open support of illegal immigration. Several stories were posted about it on ALIPAC. Protestant organizations named by Tancredo included the Evangelical Lutheran Church (evidently the primary "mover and shaker" behind bringing Somali "refugees" to the United States in large numbers - a program which evidently became so rife with fraud that it had to be temporatily shut down while DNA tests were used to prove legitimate biological familial relationships), and the United Methodist Church. I believe he included the Society of Friends ("Quakers"), which tragically is instrumental in luring illegal aliens to their deaths in the blistering deserts of our Southwest by "humanely" placing water along their paths and extending (temporary) aid. If not included by Mr. Tancedo, I would add the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), which has strong religious and poltiical influence in Southwestern states now overflowing with illegal aliens - Utah, Nevada, and Colorado - a number of whom are LDS members. I believe there were other Protestant denominations on Mr. Tancredo's list, but those are all that come specifically to mind.

The real heroes in all this evidently are our U.S. Border Patrol agents, who, while being condemned by organizations both religious and secular, do marathon labor rescuing large numbers of illegal aliens attempting to enter the United States each year, often with the encouragement of those very organizations which condemn them.

Originally Posted by cayla99

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Quote:
"Last month at the Farmleigh Conference in Dublin, the Minister promised to set up a global Irish network, and to develop an online portal to connect the diaspora with Ireland."

"Diaspora: the dispersion of the Jews after the end of the Babylonian captivity" (Oxford American Dictionary)

I am the great-granddaughter of an Irish immigrant. The truth is that people left Ireland in droves beginning in the 19th Century after the Irish Potato Famine because much of the population was starving to death. Many of them, sadly, begged to get on rickity ships leaving Ireland without any specified destination simply to get out. Many got no farther than the Irish Sea, where they drowned as these overloaded vessels sank.

In my opinion, much of the suffering of the Irish people has been brought on by the overwhelming influence of the Roman Catholic Church, which prohibits limiting family and national population growth in any responsible manner (from responsible methods I exclude abortion except in cases of rape or health emergency). To try to lay responsbility for the albeit tragic poverty in Ireland during much of its recent history at the door of other nations, and to imply that the Irish scattered across the face of the globe to escape "captivity" rather than economic conditions in their own country often tied to family overpopulation beyond a family's-and the nation's- ability to support its own is not only inaccurate but wrong. The United States takes more legal immigrants each year than any other nation; we do not need to take more.

Do I agree with the Irish government butting their nose into our immigration policies, the answer to that is NO!!! Do I agree with our government butting their nose into other countries business? The answer to that is NO. Do all of the Irish agree with Mr. Martin? Hell No, most that I have spoken with call him a knacker. It is no different than the entire US being lumped together with Obama and his Czars. Or saying we were in lock-step with Bush. It isn't so. However, to twist this into an anti-catholic argument is pathetic.

I am going to hold my peace no more. I am sick and tired of the catholic bashing that goes on here! I don't know how many of you pious people have read the numbers alert, but the protestants are doing more than their fair share in pushing for amnesty.

As for the family size being the problem in the potato famine, perhaps you should read your history books. Did you know that their was more than enough food to feed the Irish population? There was enough wheat and corn to more than provide for the Irish when the potato crop failed. But the PROTESTANT English exported this life saving grain to feed the ANIMALS in the UK. Yes, these holier than the Catholic Protestants intentionally and deliberately attempted to starve the entire population to death!! Did you know that the US and a number of other countries shipped tons of food to Ireland and the PROTESTANT BRITISH Made it rot on the decks and imprisoned any of the starving that tried to take some to feed their children? I have had it with the hypocritical attitudes of those trying to blame our political problems on religion!

Thanks Cayla. We need your passion

The last thing we need to battle about is religion. We have to stay focused on one thing and that is defeating Guitierrez's announced immigration reform bill. That scares me a lot more than anything else, since there are powerful foreign and American lobbies supporting this and deep pockets of those who will benefit funding the whole thing.
It will be an uphill battle, so we do need to be cohesive and not distracted.

The official policies of our leaders, both religious and secular, regarding illegal immigration and illegal aliens themselves increasingly pose difficult personal choices for us all. Below are two new stories and two personal Blogs by Roy Beck (the first two posted at ALIPAC today) on this topic, and all refer initially or exclusively to the policies of Protestant Christian denominations. It is equally difficult and disillusioning to those like myself who are not religious but who contributed regularly to food drives (in which religious institutions participate heavily) to learn when I called for an acquaintance that the North Texas Food Bank evidently did not offer services to those who do not speak Spanish (although the bulk of their contributions over years has come from the local English-speaking community), and that the Spanish-speaking people who answered their telephone found it laughable that I expected service in English. This disillusionment extends to reports of preferential treatment of legal immigrants over native-born American citizens by the U.S. Small Business Administration, and of mass corruption within our USCIS. Good reasons for us all to work together here to fight against new visa programs, increased levels of legal immigration, and, especially, amnesty legislation for illegal aliens.

Hospitality to Illegal Aliens While Looking at the Others in the Room (the Individual Moral Complication), by Roy Beck, NumbersUSA
http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-966869.html#966869

Clergy's role grows in immigration reform discussion
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-174942.html

Evangelicals Call for Immigration Reform
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-173910.html

EVANGELICALS: Your Leaders Endorsed Mass Amnesty Today, by Roy Beck, NumbersUSA
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-173870.html

[quote]“Irish people are aware of the difficulties of coming over here illegally, they’re aware of the dangers,â€