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11-21-2006, 05:05 PM #31
International courts would have nothing to do with determining whether the Treason occurred. Treason and lack of authority would be the reason the agreements already executed could possibly be voided like any document that you challenge as a forgery, a fraud if we had impeached Bush and Cheney. Since we haven't and aren't going to apparently, then these other parties have every reason to rely upon the validity of these agreements.
There is nothing the US can do to void these agreements that have already been executed ... hundreds of them ... during the past 18 months on SPP and NAU. We can stop any more from being executed; we can repeal the Free Trade Agreements; and withdraw from the WTO.
As to controlling the US Congress ... while we didn't control the US Senate ... we had the power to stop the Senate.
As of January 2007, we have neither.
And the contitutionality of any execution of any Free Trade Agreement or "signing" of this Presidency will be decided by the US Supreme Court which we lost on these issues long ago.
It's grim.
And Rangel wants to re-institute the draft so ... they're getting ready for the show down.
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11-21-2006, 05:25 PM #32
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First of all, Rangel does NOT want to institute the Draft!!
It's his ploy, that he has used for some years!! to keep the anti-war crowd revved! Please, don't buy into this very simple disinformation.
He's voted it down when it comes up for a vote. It's disinformation, folks.
Thrown out to confuse and drain off our attention from the urgent and also to keep the anti-war crowd angered.
Not going anywhere, at least right now.
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11-21-2006, 05:28 PM #33
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Originally Posted by Judy
Now, the idea that we "don't have the power to stop the Senate" is more of your absurd doomsaying and negativity. There are all sorts of procedural blocks that can be used, including but not limited to the filibuster. There is also the possibility of gaining the support of some of the new blue dog Dems. It ain't over 'til it's over. Real patriots absorbed the bad news of the election results and moved on to figuring out to work from this new reality. What possible good does all this naysaying you are heaping on us do except to help the other side by demoralizing the troops? I say get with the program of stop sandbagging those who are making an effort. Sorry, but that's how I see it. We don't need defeatists and we don't need a fifth column.
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11-21-2006, 05:37 PM #34
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Explaining the various possibilities is far more difficult than illuminating the possibilities of a specific course of action, but perhaps you get the idea. There is no reason for these agreements, which the federal government only has the power to obligate itself and its direct possessions to, could not be disposed of in any of a number of ways.
yes, it's difficult especially with the web that has been created but I'm following you. You're articulating what I know as truth.
A loud YES re: FDR. He's someone that's been raised on a pedestal just as JFK while folks aren't aware of the serious damage that they have done and that the American people are paying the price for these underhanded actions today.
JUDY
I'm not quite following your thinking, especially with the "international court" pertaining to our AGREEMENTS. I could be wrong, but it sounds as though you believe that the "international court" supercedes our Constitution and our Judicial Branch. If that's your belief, I would like to hear Scalia's thoughts as it pertains to our Judicial Branch. They, several of them, have been attempting to move us towards this position but Scalia has fought them tooth and nail. I have not a shred of legal background so I'm not able to discuss this with any credibility.
I do believe, from the little that I do know, that a proper CONGRESS can disengage us from these Agreements, piece by piece. Just as they were created.........piece by piece.
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11-21-2006, 06:04 PM #35
I can see by your tone and attitude Crocketsghost that you're getting a little worried you didn't support what needed to be done 18 months ago.
You're hanging the future of the United States on a filibuster?
Good. Won't stop SPP, won't stop NAU, won't even stop illegal immigration. All it will do is stop "comprehensive immigration reform".
Which is good and certainly worth the effort of a filibuster.
But it isn't stopping the highways, it isn't stopping the merger of our power grid, it isn't stopping the merger of our security systems, it isn't stopping the merger of our communications sytems, it isn't and won't stop anything to do with enjoining our 3 nations at their arteries and the investments being made. It would not be We the People going to international court ... it will be the multi-national corporations going to their own international court to enforce the agreements and protect their investments.
The Executive Branch not the Legislative Branch prevents this and this Executive Branch won't because this is this Executive Branch's Agenda which they are Executing with admirable skill and will continue to execute for 2 more years in a full spirit of "bipartisanship and cooperation".
As American Citizens, we don't even have a court to go to on any of this. The International Courts are business courts set up through the WTO and Free Trade Agreements.
We the People are already out of the loop, legally.
In fact the Free Trade Agreements of George Bush specifically over-ride our "public laws" by their terms and any business or foreign government can challenge any law anywhere in the United States and have that dispute decided by ... the WTO and their tribunal courts on the basis that the "public laws" interfere with the trade intended by the agreement which includes local, state and public laws and ordinances.
Taking the position that it would be a "waste of time" to fire a President and Vice President for Treason as they roam the world on Air Force One and Two as our duly authorized Leaders "leading" foreign nations, foreign businesses, foreign nationals and foreign investors into believing that they are executing the Will of the American People when they aren't ... is the silliest thing I've ever heard.
It compares to discovering you have an Embezzler in the Front Office sucking your bank accounts dry but while you're filing lawsuits and enacting strategies to solve the long-term problem ... you leave them in the Front Office with the Check Book instead of taking the Check Book away from them; changing the locks on the door; and locking them out of the Building ... so they can do no further harm.
And if you think a nation that doesn't have the gumption to do that to save its sovereignty is going to honor our ancestors and run blood in the streets is a Pipe Dream.
You can't solve a problem like this on the perimeter. You have to go to the ROOT which is not in Congress ... it's in the White House where it's always been.
And Crocket ... insulting me isn't going to change that fact.
BTW: How are things in Iran lately? Looks like we're soliciting their aid to clean up the mess your boys have made in Iraq.A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
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11-21-2006, 06:07 PM #36
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Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis
In short, our nation's founders claimed that our law was based on the highest law of man, the Common Law, which in turn descends from the highest law of all, the law of the Creator, also referred to as the Natural Law. No international law can supersede that law, nor was it ever intended that our law be subordinated to those laws created by the monarchs or their merchants, which is what "international law" is.
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11-21-2006, 06:31 PM #37Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis
[quote:3qvgff1z]JUDY
I'm not quite following your thinking, especially with the "international court" pertaining to our AGREEMENTS. I could be wrong, but it sounds as though you believe that the "international court" supercedes our Constitution and our Judicial Branch. If that's your belief, I would like to hear Scalia's thoughts as it pertains to our Judicial Branch. They, several of them, have been attempting to move us towards this position but Scalia has fought them tooth and nail. I have not a shred of legal background so I'm not able to discuss this with any credibility.
I do believe, from the little that I do know, that a proper CONGRESS can disengage us from these Agreements, piece by piece. Just as they were created.........piece by piece.
Our US Constitution and our US Supreme Court do not decide disputes concerning international agreements. The reason is the law presumes ours would be biased in our favor the same way a Mexican Court would be biased towards Mexico. If the agreements were negotiated by an authorized person, which they were; and the agreements were approved if required by the appropriate body, which they were ... then all business conducted under them is protected. Our own laws would validate such agreements if they were executed by two Governors in matters between two states. So just take this law which is universal and apply it to two nations. We can change our mind and terminate the agreement if the agreement allows for it. But it doesn't affect the business conducted in good faith under them. It can prevent future business from being conducted but it can not unravel or reverse the business that occurred legally under the terms of the agreement while in force.
The sooner we withdraw from the WTO, the better; the sooner we terminate all the Free Trade Agreements the better; and the sooner we stop further regulations and agreements under SPP and NAU, the better.
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11-21-2006, 07:10 PM #38
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JUDY
this below contradicts your belief that the "international court" supercedes our Judicial Branch
The sooner we withdraw from the WTO, the better; the sooner we terminate all the Free Trade Agreements the better; and the sooner we stop further regulations and agreements under SPP and NAU, the better.
The "roads" that you mentioned are being done per STATE and not thru an "agreement." This is their method by which they can SELL the roadways to international entities and have AMERICAN TAXPAYERS PAY FOR THEM.
These roads fall under STATE jurisdiction and not international law at this moment in time. That's why TEXAS is fighting so hard to stop their "corridor."
The remainder of your comment I've not looked into yet so I won't speak on it right now.
PIECE BY PIECE......this can be deconstructed.
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11-21-2006, 08:39 PM #39
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Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Do you even know what a "public law" is or over whom such a law has jurisdiction? Do you know what the territorial jurisdiction of a public law is? Do you know the difference between federal code and positive law? I didn't think so...
Originally Posted by Judy
After you take a moment to wrap your head around that, ask yourself what the odds are that anyone will not only be able to convince a Representative to introduce Articles of Impeachment, but to convince the House to ratify the articles and then the Senate to convict. By what process you determined that such fantasy was achievable I cannot imagine, but surely you understand that if the President is guilty of treason, then so are most of the members of the House and Senate who would be responsible for prosecuting him for actions that they themselves signed off on!
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
Originally Posted by Judy
On the other hand, the approach I am suggesting also addresses the Presidency in that it seeks to find a patriotic American to make an unexpected impact on the primary process and will either provide a viable candidate or will at least manage to shift the debate to things like the selling out of our country. The bad guys don't like to operate in the full light of day, and so even managing to get a caucus elected that can expose the dangers of trade agreements and the abrogation of our sovereignty will have a positive impact.
Originally Posted by Judy
As for your comment about Iran, you are making less sense by the moment. I have no idea who you think "my boys" are. Maybe you need to go and lie down before your posts get any stranger.
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11-21-2006, 09:25 PM #40
Impeaching the President may not accomplish much, but it would be a start. Who really needs to be exposed are others than Bush who support his interaction with the NAU concept. I don't care about any international law, our President can pull out of any Treaty or agreement at any time, any place and he should do so when HE KNOWS that such an agreement has a negative impact on the social fabric of this country..It is not him who has the authority to change cultures (or alter ours). That's somehing that every American comes to accept WITH TIME, not something that is secertly thought out and implemented by those in power at their very whim and force it down our throats. For that, he and these traitrous others are criminals and should be thrown out on their rears. These scumbags will do anything for a buck.
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