Thread: SBC's decision 'amnesty' by another name

Thank you Happy2bme! That pretty much summed up how I always felt about it. My best friend's parents used to leave Wake Co. to buy their liquor...LOL! That always made me laugh, I know the Mr. rolled his eyes but the Mrs. always won out on that!

Originally Posted by nomas

Thank you Happy2bme! That pretty much summed up how I always felt about it. My best friend's parents used to leave Wake Co. to buy their liquor...LOL! That always made me laugh, I know the Mr. rolled his eyes but the Mrs. always won out on that!

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I am a Southern Baptist, and I am shocked and shamed by what the Southern Baptist Convention has done to our country with this selfish and self-centered resolution supporting illegal aliens who are here stealing jobs, health care, taxes, services, educations, opportunities, votes and dreams from American Citizens.

To all those who voted for this resolution, if you want to open up your yard, your property, your home, your children, your street, your job, your business, your social security number, your money and your vote to illegal aliens, have at it and prepare to face the legal consequences that will soon come raining down on you, but you don't speak for me, my yard, my property, my home, my children, my street, my job, my business, my social security number, my money, my vote or my country.

How dare you? How dare you use your 501 C 3 not-for-profit, tax-exempt status by which you operate to convene and pass resolutions that are intended to impact public policy and influence legislation in DIRECT VIOLATION of US tax law that will overpopulate our nation with more people than jobs, more kids than money to support them and grow poverty, unemployment, suffering and hunger amongst our own people?

How dare you abuse our church organization for such an evil purpose? Shame on you, Southern Baptist Convention, Shame, Shame, Shame On You.

To my fellow Southern Baptists, you better wake up, demand a repeal of this anti-American outrageous resolution and elect some new delegates to the convention who can prove they have 2 live brain cells still connected before they vote on anything connected with our church.

So tell me, "convention delegates", how many of you own farms that employ illegal aliens instead of American Workers? Tell me, how many of you own small businesses, construction companies and are contractors who hire illegal aliens instead of American Workers? How many of you hire illegal aliens to mow your yards, rake your leaves, fix your roofs, clean your house and baby-sit your kids instead of hiring American Workers to do these jobs for you?

Do you think we're stupid? Do you really think we don't know what this phony treasonous self-serving exploitation of our organization is actually all about?

Do you think we're blind? Do you really believe we can't see this resolution for what it is which is nothing more than a futile and vile attempt to protect you from your own illegal activities?

How dare you shame our church, betray our members and turn your backs on our fellow citizens with this dastardly act?

How dare you? Shame On You, Southern Baptist Convention. Shame, Shame, Shame On You.

Resolutions: SBC tackles immigration, NIV


Posted on Jun 16, 2011 | by Tom Strode
PHOENIX (BP)--Messengers addressed the thorny issue of immigration by adopting a resolution that sought to promote the gospel of Jesus while calling for justice and compassion during the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention, June 14-15 in Phoenix.

The resolution on immigration was one of eight approved either unanimously or overwhelmingly during the morning and afternoon sessions June 15.

In an unusual move, messengers called to the floor and passed a resolution on the "gender-neutral 2011 New International Version" (NIV) that was not reported to the convention by the Resolutions Committee.

Among the other resolutions adopted were ones affirming biblical teaching on the reality of hell, religious liberty throughout the world, corporate repentance, civility in public discourse and marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman.

The immigration resolution -- adopted by what appeared to be about 70 to 80 percent of the messengers -- urged Southern Baptist churches to proclaim Christ and minister in His spirit to everyone, regardless of their "immigration status." It said "any form of nativism, mistreatment, or exploitation is inconsistent with the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

The measure called for the government to make a priority of border security and holding businesses accountable in their hiring. It also requested public officials "to implement, with the borders secured, a just and compassionate path to legal status, with appropriate restitutionary measures, for those undocumented immigrants already living in our country."

The resolution's paragraph on instituting a process for illegal immigrants to gain legal status after the securing of the borders and with restitution elicited an amendment that produced the most floor debate during the resolutions report. Final action on the resolution was delayed from the morning to afternoon session when the vote on the amendment was too close to call and required a ballot vote.

Richard Huff, a messenger from Corona de Tucson Baptist Church in Tucson, Ariz., introduced the amendment, which would have deleted the paragraph in question. In support of his amendment, Huff said from the floor, "[T]he principle is that citizenship is a right of people that are here under legal processes, and you do not want to make this something you are rewarding people who are in violation of the law and they have no interest in being here legally."

Paul Jimenez, chairman of the Resolutions Committee, urged messengers to defeat the amendment. He said the committee members think the resolution is "a realistic and biblical approach to immigration" and removing the language affected by the amendment "would really weaken it in such a way that we would oppose it."

Messengers barely defeated Huff's amendment, 766-723 (51.3 percent to 48.4 percent).

In the afternoon session, messengers handily rejected an amendment to the same paragraph that called for illegal immigrants to be returned to their home countries. They backed an amendment offered by the committee, however, that clarified the resolution was "not to be construed as support for amnesty for any undocumented immigrant."

an amendment to the same paragraph that called for illegal immigrants to be returned to their home countries

In explaining the immigration resolution, Jimenez told messengers the committee's goal was that the measure "speak first and foremost to the pockets of lostness" in the United States. He said the resolution was built on a 2006 resolution but "moves us light years ahead when it comes to its Gospel-centeredness, as well as understanding how the culture itself is changing. And the culture itself is moving in such a way where immigrants in this country are in desperate need of the Gospel and their numbers are growing and growing at an exponential rate."

Regarding the public policy aspect, he said the committee decided "to state those principles as broadly as possible."

"We can present the Gospel while at the same time upholding the law of the land," said Jimenez, pastor of Taylors First Baptist Church in Taylors, S.C. He said the resolution "is very strong; it is very balanced, leads with the Gospel but also takes into account our mandate to obey the laws of the land."

Richard Land, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, lauded the resolution at a news conference after the committee's final report, calling it "very statesman-like."

"This resolution upholds the rule of law," Land told reporters. "This resolution upholds the sovereignty of the United States, and this resolution seeks to deal compassionately and fairly and justly with those who are here in an undocumented status, and calls upon us to act as if this is a Gospel issue, which it is."

The NIV resolution overwhelmingly approved by messengers "expressed profound disappointment" with publication of the new translation and "respectfully request[ed] that LifeWay" not sell the version in its stores.

The resolution came to the floor when Indiana pastor Tim Overton persuaded messengers to address the 2011 version of the popular translation that his resolution said had "gone beyond acceptable translation standards" regarding gender. His resolution said 75 percent of the flawed gender translation in the TNIV appears in the new NIV. Southern Baptist messengers expressed their disapproval of the TNIV in a 2002 resolution.

Overton, pastor of Halteman Village Baptist Church in Muncie, Ind., told messengers the Southern Baptist Convention needed to address the issue in its role as a leading voice in the evangelical Christian community.

Speaking for the committee regarding its decision not to present Overton's measure, Russell Moore said the members did not believe the issue "rose to the level of needing to be addressed by this year's convention." Moore said the TNIV was "something of a stealth move," which was not true in this case. He also said the NIV is not in the same position now as it was in the past, since such translations as the Holman Christian Standard Bible and English Standard Version are now available. He also said the NIV is "just one of many Bibles out there [with] similar language."

The committee did not oppose passage of the resolution. At the news conference, Moore said, "The committee, of course, shares the concerns that were expressed in the resolution. The issue was not whether or not we would affirm the NIV and its changes but whether or not we thought the current changes were worthy of being addressed" at this year's meeting.

Moore is dean of the school of theology and senior vice president for academic administration at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, as well as teaching pastor for Highview Baptist Church in Louisville, Ky.

The resolution on hell came as part of an ongoing response to the publication earlier this year of Michigan pastor Rob Bell's book "Love Wins." Bell's controversial book "called into question the church's historic teaching on the doctrine of eternal punishment of the unregenerate," as the resolution described it.

In adopting the resolution, messengers affirmed "our belief in the biblical teaching on eternal, conscious punishment of the unregenerate in hell." The resolution also urged Southern Baptists "to proclaim faithfully the depth and gravity of sin against a holy God, the reality of hell, and the salvation of sinners by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, to the glory of God alone."

The other resolutions approved:

-- Reaffirmed the convention's belief that all people have religious freedom, meaning they possess the liberty "to convert to another religion or to no religion, to seek to persuade others of the claims of one's religion, and to worship without harassment or impediment from the state." It also called for prayer for persecuted Christians throughout the world.

-- Urged President Obama to reverse course by ordering the Department of Justice to defend fully the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) in federal court and renewed the convention's call for a constitutional amendment defining marriage as only between a man and a woman. DOMA is a 1996 law that defines marriage federally as exclusively between a man and a woman and protects states from having to recognize same-sex marriages performed in states where such unions are legal.

-- Called for corporate repentance and prayer, urging Southern Baptists to seek "a life of genuine repentance, Kingdom-focused prayer times for sweeping revival and spiritual awakening, and consistent prayer for specific lost people, missions, and ministry."

-- Encouraged civility in the public discussion of controversial issues and denounced "the speech or activities of any individual or group that brings shame upon the name of Christ and His gospel." It urged Southern Baptists "to speak biblically and authoritatively with conviction, kindness, and gentleness."

-- Thanked God and those He used in producing the annual meeting of Southern Baptists.

Ten resolutions were submitted for this year's meeting. The committee declined to act on some but addressed others in the final resolutions recommended to the messengers.

In addition to Jimenez and Moore, the other members of the committee were: Linda Clark, member, Graceland Baptist Church in New Albany, Ind.; Stephen Farish, senior pastor, Crossroads Church in Grayslake, Ill.; Mark Howell, senior pastor, Houston Northwest Church in Houston, Texas; Tim McCoy, senior pastor, Ingleside Baptist Church in Macon, Ga.; Michael Pigg, senior pastor, Philadelphia Baptist Church in Lithonia, Ga.; Jimmy Scroggins, senior pastor, First Baptist Church in West Palm Beach, Fla.; Jamie Work, pastor, Candies Creek Baptist Church in Charleston, Tenn., and Carol Yarber, member, First Baptist Church in Malakoff, Texas.
--30--
Tom Strode is Washington bureau chief for Baptist Press.
http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=35565

Originally Posted by Newmexican

Resolutions: SBC tackles immigration, NIV

"We can present the Gospel while at the same time upholding the law of the land," said Jimenez, pastor of Taylors First Baptist Church in Taylors, S.C. He said the resolution "is very strong; it is very balanced, leads with the Gospel but alsotakes into account our mandate to obey the laws of the land."


-- Encouraged civility in the public discussion of controversial issues and denounced "the speech or activities of any individual or group that brings shame upon the name of Christ and His gospel." It urged Southern Baptists "to speak biblically and authoritatively with conviction, kindness, and gentleness."

-- Thanked God and those He used in producing the annual meeting of Southern Baptists.

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These people are complete hypocrites.

Here's why:


U.S. Immigration Law

The U.S. immigration laws require deportation of an illegal alien if the alien:

1. has been convicted of an aggravated felony
2. has not resided in the United States for a contiguous period of seven years
3. was not a lawful permanent resident for a contiguous period of five years
4. would not have been admissible to the United States on security grounds

This applies to the majority of illegal aliens found in gangs. In order to prove evidence of residence lawfully, they would need to show a visa or other federal document allowing their entry into the United States or an approved application for permanent residence in the United States. Few if any illegal aliens have such documents and only a handful of gang members.

Section 274 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, USC 1324 states:

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

City Sanctuary regulations circumvent the law by adopting a don't ask, don't tell policy. A police officer who follows the city regulation to not question a person who he or she suspects is an illegal alien due to probable cause (as in was witness to a previous arrest and subsequent disclosure of illegal alien status or deportation) has placed the officer in violation of Federal Law, and thus that city regulation conflicts with U.S. Immigration law.

It is the responsibility of the U.S. Attorney General, when notified of an entity acting in contravention of U.S. law, to investigate and if necessary bring such organizations before a federal grand jury for possible indictment.

Failure of the U.S. Attorney General to do so, is in of itself, a felony.

Originally Posted by Judy

Do you think we're stupid? Do you really think we don't know what this phony treasonous self-serving exploitation of our organization is actually all about?

Do you think we're blind? Do you really believe we can't see this resolution for what it is which is nothing more than a futile and vile attempt to protect you from your own illegal activities?

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Answers follow:

YES, YES, YES, and YES

Originally Posted by HAPPY2BME

Originally Posted by Judy

Do you think we're stupid? Do you really think we don't know what this phony treasonous self-serving exploitation of our organization is actually all about?

Do you think we're blind? Do you really believe we can't see this resolution for what it is which is nothing more than a futile and vile attempt to protect you from your own illegal activities?

=======================================

Answers follow:

YES, YES, YES, and YES

Are they in for a big surprise, eh?

I imagine donations, tithes and contributions, membership and attendance will be declining rapidly about now, and rightly so.

Originally Posted by nomas

Growing up in Raleigh NC I could never understand the Baptist mindset. Gambling was a huge no-no, people would go to another county to buy their liquor( so their neighbors wouldn't see them in the Liquor Store I guess), dancing was frowned upon, Lottery? OMG not that! When I came of age we had to "brown bag" to clubs... liquor by the drink? NO WAY!

But by God, those strip clubs on every corner seemed to be just fine. I never could get anyone to explain to me why everything else was a sin, but going to a strip club was perfectly acceptable. For the men anyway...

Nomas, I don't know where you went to church, but strip clubs wouldn't ever have been okay with the congregation of my church!! And though my Grandma wasn't much on dancing, that hasn't been a problem since I was a teen. (Yes, that was a really long time ago! I was a brown bagger at one time myself ) I don't think Wake was ever a dry county though.

I do want to remind folks that each Southern Baptist congregation is autonomous. That means that just because the SBC says something like this, it doesn't mean the church has to agree with it. Richard Land and Al Mohler have been nothing but bad for the SB denomination, but I guess the ones that hired them don't feel that way. I have written to the Lifeway people about carrying materials from emergent authors, but they don't see any problem with them. Of course, they like Rick (CFR) Warren too.

We have a lot of hispanics (I'm sure many are illegal) in the old mill community around my church and we try to minister to them, but we don't have spanish services (nobody speaks spanish and no money or desire to hire someone specifically for that) so the only time we see them is Vacation Bible School when they send their kids. We often see the same kids year after year, but they won't come to Sunday School. We've started a food pantry, but none of them show up, just citizens. Guess they don't need it.

My feeling is that we must try to bring them to salvation in the Lord, but that doesn't mean we have to want a "path to citizenship" for them!

Originally Posted by imblest

Originally Posted by nomas

Growing up in Raleigh NC I could never understand the Baptist mindset. Gambling was a huge no-no, people would go to another county to buy their liquor( so their neighbors wouldn't see them in the Liquor Store I guess), dancing was frowned upon, Lottery? OMG not that! When I came of age we had to "brown bag" to clubs... liquor by the drink? NO WAY!

But by God, those strip clubs on every corner seemed to be just fine. I never could get anyone to explain to me why everything else was a sin, but going to a strip club was perfectly acceptable. For the men anyway...

Nomas, I don't know where you went to church, but strip clubs wouldn't ever have been okay with the congregation of my church!! And though my Grandma wasn't much on dancing, that hasn't been a problem since I was a teen. (Yes, that was a really long time ago! I was a brown bagger at one time myself ) I don't think Wake was ever a dry county though.

I do want to remind folks that each Southern Baptist congregation is autonomous. That means that just because the SBC says something like this, it doesn't mean the church has to agree with it. Richard Land and Al Mohler have been nothing but bad for the SB denomination, but I guess the ones that hired them don't feel that way. I have written to the Lifeway people about carrying materials from emergent authors, but they don't see any problem with them. Of course, they like Rick (CFR) Warren too.

We have a lot of hispanics (I'm sure many are illegal) in the old mill community around my church and we try to minister to them, but we don't have spanish services (nobody speaks spanish and no money or desire to hire someone specifically for that) so the only time we see them is Vacation Bible School when they send their kids. We often see the same kids year after year, but they won't come to Sunday School. We've started a food pantry, but none of them show up, just citizens. Guess they don't need it.

My feeling is that we must try to bring them to salvation in the Lord, but that doesn't mean we have to want a "path to citizenship" for them!

I don't understand the need to minister to hispanics or illegal aliens. Most of them if not all of them are already Christians raised as Roman Catholics.

Originally Posted by Judy

I don't understand the need to minister to hispanics or illegal aliens. Most of them if not all of them are already Christians raised as Roman Catholics.

We don't have a whole lot of Catholic churches around here, and the children generally aren't getting much in the way of Christian instruction. Also, (not starting an argument for the Catholics with us, I know and love many Catholics!) many Catholics are not truly saved by grace and trusting in Christ. (The same is true of many who believe they themselves are Christians.) No matter Catholic or not, as Christians we still must act in a Christ-like manner to all we come into contact with. Christ said, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel." That's the number one thing He asks us to do, so we should do it.