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  1. #31
    Senior Member Beezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomslang View Post
    We must live in different times or our lives must be too distant to understand each other. I don't fear my "precious Western heritage and culture is being attacked and dismantled". I am free to do what I please and nobody can stop me. I don't understand your fear at all. Live life, be happy and healthy and raise my children "in the way that they should go". I am Pennsylvania Dutch and Scotch-Irish, if you must know, but I'm an American first and foremost.

    Why the myopic view of South Africa. Those Boer Trekkers knew what they were doing when they went down there stealing things.
    The land belong to the Khoisan who have lived there for 50,000 years. You will know when you see one: they are the Africans with "Asian features"
    As for the white South Africans that are losing "their land": I see a thief getting robbed so there's no sympathy from me.

    Here was a real Khoisan and Xhosa mixed person



    You are right. My husband explained this to me last night. These people left the Netherlands and took the land, yes, they probably farmed and developed it unlike the African people. But this has been going on for decades since they have been there, the fighting and violence. They will take the land back and it will go to waste, they will continue to breed and starve. Give them nothing.

    A lot of issues and strife trying to co-exist with black and white cultures. And Muslim and Christian cultures...like oil and vinegar. They need to go back home to their ways and beliefs, they do not belong in Western Society. And we need to keep our nose OUT of their business.

    How are white countries so successful, industrial, create jobs and prosperity, invent things, farm, while mainly black populated countries do not? It has to do with culture, religion, tribal mentality, rape of their women, violence, overbreeding, disease, corruption, and incest which leads to mental problems and low IQ. No respect for human life...and that big CHIP on their shoulder called hate and ignorance.

    Now they want to kill off the successful white people and invade our countries. They must all be sent back! They will never change their ways and all the money in the world will not help them. We have given them BILLIONS for decades. They are no better off. They have a tribal mentality and always will until their leaders are removed from office. It is not our job to do that but must be the will of their people. Their young people are their future and if they want change, they are the ones who had better fight for it. Just like what is going on in Iran. We are not the World's keeper.

    Stop giving these people CASH. They need birth control and education and learn a trade to work and earn a living. Give them nothing else. No money, no aid, no oatmeal. They have land and they have resources.

    So much violence, blood shed, rape, burning people, overbreeding, mutilation and sick people on the face of this Earth and it has been going on since the beginning of time by both black and white. There is no "hell"...I believe we are living in hell and surrounded by this hell every day because of these sick evil people.

    We need massive Chain Deportation and take our countries back...we need to deport every refugee, TPS, illegal alien, asylum liar and put at least a 10 year moratorium on ALL immigration. We need to terminate every one of these policies of bringing these people here.

    We cannot help others if we cannot help ourselves, we have 20 trillion in debt, we have millions of our citizens homeless in poverty. They take priority over ANY foreigner wanting to come here...NO MORE! Like the pilot on the plane says...put on "your mask" first before you help others.

    If we do not stop this massive invasion of our countries, and realize the impact of their 8-9 offspring and the effect it will have on this country with massive poverty and the disease they are bringing here, we will be in big trouble. Probably another Civil War.

    Civilize them on their soil...not ours.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Wonderful post, Beezer!
    Beezer likes this.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
    You are right. My husband explained this to me last night. These people left the Netherlands and took the land, yes, they probably farmed and developed it unlike the African people. But this has been going on for decades since they have been there, the fighting and violence. They will take the land back and it will go to waste, they will continue to breed and starve. Give them nothing.

    A lot of issues and strife trying to co-exist with black and white cultures. And Muslim and Christian cultures...like oil and vinegar. They need to go back home to their ways and beliefs, they do not belong in Western Society. And we need to keep our nose OUT of their business.

    How are white countries so successful, industrial, create jobs and prosperity, invent things, farm, while mainly black populated countries do not? It has to do with culture, religion, tribal mentality, rape of their women, violence, overbreeding, disease, corruption, and incest which leads to mental problems and low IQ. No respect for human life...and that big CHIP on their shoulder called hate and ignorance.

    Now they want to kill off the successful white people and invade our countries. They must all be sent back! They will never change their ways and all the money in the world will not help them. We have given them BILLIONS for decades. They are no better off. They have a tribal mentality and always will until their leaders are removed from office. It is not our job to do that but must be the will of their people. Their young people are their future and if they want change, they are the ones who had better fight for it. Just like what is going on in Iran. We are not the World's keeper.

    Stop giving these people CASH. They need birth control and education and learn a trade to work and earn a living. Give them nothing else. No money, no aid, no oatmeal. They have land and they have resources.

    So much violence, blood shed, rape, burning people, overbreeding, mutilation and sick people on the face of this Earth and it has been going on since the beginning of time by both black and white. There is no "hell"...I believe we are living in hell and surrounded by this hell every day because of these sick evil people.

    We need massive Chain Deportation and take our countries back...we need to deport every refugee, TPS, illegal alien, asylum liar and put at least a 10 year moratorium on ALL immigration. We need to terminate every one of these policies of bringing these people here.

    We cannot help others if we cannot help ourselves, we have 20 trillion in debt, we have millions of our citizens homeless in poverty. They take priority over ANY foreigner wanting to come here...NO MORE! Like the pilot on the plane says...put on "your mask" first before you help others.

    If we do not stop this massive invasion of our countries, and realize the impact of their 8-9 offspring and the effect it will have on this country with massive poverty and the disease they are bringing here, we will be in big trouble. Probably another Civil War.

    Civilize them on their soil...not ours.
    While I cannot substantiate most of what you said, I cannot deny that the value systems are completely incompatible.

    I have been to every continent on earth. I have iced fished with Inuit in Fairbanks, Alaska and I have eaten roasted lamb in Aukland. I saw a Metallica concert in Antarctica. I've walked the streets of eGoli, South Africa and rode bikes in Durban.

    As you probably already know, I get along well with African people all over the world. I have learned their (African American) view and I am able to reconcile it as something that is accountable unto itself. I read "Soul On Ice" in college. I really think you should read that book to understand some of the things you touched on.

    Other than that, now you have the secret too. What are you going to do with it?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I personally don't think the Afrikaans (white Dutch people who settled in South Africa back in the 1600's, been there a long, long time) would ever assimilate into our country, even if there was ever a right time to allow such immigration which isn't now, because we don't want or need any more immigration at this time.
    jtdc and Beezer like this.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Expropriation ‘could trigger economic upheaval’. But will it?

    02 March 2018 - 18:36 By Penwell Dlamini

    Expropriation of land without compensation could create a systemic risk for the banking industry‚ warns Ian Matthews‚ head of business development at Bravura‚ an independent investment banking firm.

    The decision to expropriate land without compensation was taken by the ANC at its 54th Congress in December. This was followed by President Cyril Ramaphosa announcing in his February 16 state of the nation address that the government will accelerate its land redistribution programme. On February 27‚ a motion to amend section 25 of the Constitution‚ which deals with property‚ in the National Assembly was passed by a majority vote.

    This week‚ Ramaphosa assured the National House of Traditional Leaders that they would be properly consulted on the land issue. He added that there was no reason to "panic and start beating war drums".

    Britain must intervene in SA land debate‚ says member of European Parliament

    A member of the European Parliament has written to British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson‚ saying he needs to "mediate" with South African officials ...

    The president said it was safe to continue investing in land and that it was important that farming activities continue as normal. "We are going to handle this matter in the way we've always handled difficult issues in our country: by dialogue‚ discussion‚ engagement‚ until we find good solutions that will take our country forward‚" Ramaphosa said.

    But Matthews took a more alarmist view of land expropriation.

    He described it as a drastic step and said it could trigger economic upheaval in South Africa. He said the economic world was watching South Africa to see whether expropriation result in changes to economic policies.

    “Expropriation without compensation could create a systemic risk for the South African banking/financing industry as a whole. Loan and bond agreements entered into with a bank do not typically take into account a scenario in which property seizure results in a forcible change of ownership‚” he said.

    “If a loan is defaulted upon as a result of expropriation‚ it is unclear what the recourse would be for the borrower involved‚ and how the lender will ever be able to recover the loans granted.” He added that government records show that the major sources of credit for farmers are banks (56%)‚ agricultural co-operatives and agribusinesses (9%) and the Land and the Land Bank (30%).

    “South African banks have a significant exposure to the agricultural industry. According to Bloomberg‚ farmers have their highest-ever debt with South African banks with a total of more than R125 billion.”

    FirstRand and Barclays Africa has the largest proportion of agricultural loans (3.6% and 3.4% of their total lending book respectively)‚ followed by Standard Bank (2%) and Nedbank (1%)‚ Matthews said. “It is therefore clear that expropriation that leads to a failure to recover these loans may result in widespread bankruptcy and an ensuing economic crisis‚ which could result in a systemic risk in the banking and agricultural sectors‚” he said.

    “It would be hard to imagine how the banking and finance sector would be able to overcome large-scale loan losses [that] could arise from an expropriation without financial compensation. Government may well have to step in to prop up the banks and other financial market role players.”

    He warned that food security and jobs in the agricultural sector could be negatively affected.

    “One suspects that even now there is hesitancy to invest in or finance any new agricultural ventures as a result of the uncertainty created by the recent developments‚” he added.

    But the motion passed in the National Assembly contained the caveat that expropriation would be done in a sustainable way and is only the first step in determining how expropriation will take place.

    Professor Ruth Hall of the Poverty‚ Land and Agrarian Studies at the University of the Western Cape‚ said in a recent interview: “In the same breath in which Ramaphosa talked about expropriation without compensation‚ he said three things. Any changes must promote rather than disincentivise agricultural investments; they must not threaten food security; they must be the result of consulting widely on this including with financial institutions.

    The matter has been referred to the Constitutional Review Committee‚ which must report back to Parliament by August 30.

    The Economic Freedom Fighters proposed that an ad hoc committee be established to review and amend Section 25 of the Constitution‚ known as the property clause.

    It states the government must make laws and take other steps to help people to get land to live on‚ and to claim back land they were dispossessed of after 1913 as a result of colonial and apartheid laws.

    https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/sou...l-but-will-it/
    Last edited by Judy; 03-03-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Beezer's Avatar
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    "I cannot deny that the value systems are completely incompatible."

    --------------------------------------------------

    Which is why multi-culturalism does not and will not work...and should not be FORCED upon us. Especially in an overcrowded and financially strapped environments while preserving our resources and quality of life for our own future.

    Look at Europe...a time bomb that is going to explode. Not a matter of "if"...but "when". What good does this do for anybody? NONE!

    Most of these people would rather not flee their countries and would like to stay home with their families. Fix the root of the problems on their soil...the corruption, rape, overbreeding, violence, poverty and education.

    If it means gangs, drug dealers and terrorists who are violent criminals get automatic death penalty to rid this scourge of our society so we can live in peace...then so be it! There are too many and we cannot continue to warehouse these people for decades...not to mention the costs that WE are forced to pay for it, while we have homeless, veterans, seniors and children to take care of.

    In all your travels...the beauty of exploring these different lands and learning of others their culture, their food, is part of the adventure and understanding and seeing new things. That does not mean we bring it here. They need to preserve their culture, their land, their beliefs and have a good life on their soil. But to mix them all in a big "melting pot" is a recipe for disaster which is unfolding before our very eyes.

    It does not mean we cannot get along...we just cannot get along in each others "pockets" with "incompatible" beliefs and think you are going to put us all in a paper bag and shake it up and think we will be happy and get along.

    Many of these people invading our country hate us, do not share our beliefs and are destroying our way of life. More segregation, more division for these very "incompatible" reasons. Send them back.

    They need to stay in their country, embrace their culture, their way of life and strive to be civilized, productive, human beings.

    We need to stop and reverse this invasion of our countries.

    All these countries have land, they have resources and they have a lot of evil people that need to be rooted out, removed from office. No excuse to allow this to continue and uproot entire massive hordes of people.

    We are not the solution to the World's problems and we need to stop dumping this on our backs.
    Judy, MW and Mayday like this.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I feel like they'll work out something that is fair and reasonable. I sure hope so. I don't know enough about the statistics and history of the situation they're dealing with after 1913, which is the only lands that would be affected, not the ones prior to that and Afrikans have been in South Africa since the 1600's.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member 6 Million Dollar Man's Avatar
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    Sorry, we're full.
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  9. #39
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    Expropriating land without compensation is impossible—take it from Zimbabwe

    March 01, 2018Quartz Africa

    South Africa will now begin to reclaim land taken from black people near a century ago without payback to the current owners, dividing public sentiment along fears of a “land grab” and cries for justice. On Feb. 27, lawmakers overwhelmingly voted in favor to amend the constitution to allow land expropriation without compensation.

    This is a marked shift in policy, and comes at a time when land reform (through both the State and market) has made more progress than experts and policy makers care to admit. The African National Congress’ decision to back a motion by the more radical newcomers, the Economic Freedom Fighters also disregarded the facts about the stalled progress of existing land redistribution and restitution programs in post-apartheid South Africa. The decision comes after the ANC chose to formally adopt the policy at their December conference after a heated debate.

    Ironically, South Africa’s decision comes at a time when the Zimbabwean government has established a compensation committee under its land acquisition act to allow for dispossessed white, former commercial farmers to be compensated for land seized 18 years ago. It also begs the question why the ANC and the EFF are taking a position that its revolutionary counterparts from across the Limpopo River are departing from. Nonetheless, if the Zimbabwean experience were not sufficient to proffer some fundamental lessons for South Africa, then it would be prudent to point out a number of facts that should call on policy makers to reconsider this new direction.
    With the benefit of hindsight, the Zimbabwean experience tells us is that the notion of expropriation without compensation is a bad idea. Zimbabweans might have seized the land without compensation 18 years ago, but they collectively paid for it through eight consecutive years of economic decline that led to job losses, deindustrialization and a loss of agricultural export revenues. In 2009, economist Eddie Cross estimated the cost of Zimbabwe’s land reform at $20 billion–which included lost export revenues, food aid imports and economic growth foregone, which could’ve sustained Zimbabwe’s once promising economy, had it not seized farms without compensation.

    After unemployment rates of over 90% and tepid growth in recent years, the Zimbabwean government is going back to correct the fundamental mistake it made nearly two decades ago – which is to compensate farmers, whose estimated compensation costs are set to amount to $11 billion. The moral of the story is if the government declines to directly compensate its commercial sector for land improvements, at the very least, then someone else will have to pay for it, indirectly. The compensation effect, as we would like to call it, will see the entire economy and its citizenry paying for land seizures through lost agriculture export revenues, job opportunities and more.

    In the South African scenario, there are two immediate points that are worth noting: the difficulty in implementing expropriation without compensation, and the implications of the policy. Firstly, if the constitution is amended accordingly to allow for land to be expropriated without compensation,how would the law cater for the assets on the farm and improvements made on the land?

    The land on its own is roughly 10% of the total value of a typical farm operation, if fixed and moveable assets are taken into account. Would sunk investments that make up the rest of the 90%, like general farm infrastructure, machinery and and other investments, be subject to expropriation without compensation too? If compensation is due for farm assets, and not the land itself, then the technical argument that arises is: Would it be prudent for government to pay 90% in compensating farmers for improvements to the land, in order to obtain the 10% that represents the actual land value?

    Second is the complication that would emerge from the existing fact that South African agricultural land is heavily indebted. Farm debt emanating from title deeds to secure loans already stands at over $13.7 billion (160 billion rand), bringing into question how the government will handle indebted land. If farmers aren’t compensated, will the state repay to banks who are de facto partial owners of that land through debt? If government exonerates itself from compensating the banks, this would translate to $13.7 billion wiped off the banks’ books.

    If government commits to cover this debt, it contradicts the policy, becoming instead expropriation with compensation—except that the money goes to the bank not the farmer. Let us assume that the government is sensible enough to compensate the commercial farmer for improvements made to land as well as the bank through debt owed by the farmers.

    If it happens that the government determines the value of infrastructure and investments on the farms, and then uses that same value to cover the debt that is owed to the banks, then there are situations that could arise where farmers receive “zero compensation”. There might also be situations where seized farms are insolvent, in which case, the government would have to pay the banks the balance of what is owed by the farmers whose land they are seizing. This scenario is already permissible under the current constitution and does not require an amendment of any law.

    The South African government will soon discover the extremely complex technical headache of expropriating land without compensation. By then, land reform may have stalled altogether. This could lead to further public impatience, placated by the kind reforms that could allow the government to seize land with impunity.



    We saw this in Zimbabwe when commercial farmers took the Zimbabwean government to court over land seizures. The courts were inundated with litigations that would’ve taken the government an entire generation to resolve. Then, in another moment of madness in 2003, the constitution was amended to nullify all those cases brought to the courts by commercial farmers. In that instance, the Zimbabwean government wanted to get rid of the headaches that emerged from land seizures, but wiped off $10 billion in land value.

    With the benefit of the Zimbabwean experience, most of which people are quick to ignore and dismiss, we learn an important lesson that needs to be the hallmark of land reform thinking in South Africa. This lesson is that there is no such thing as expropriation without compensation in a quasi-capitalist economy. The history of land expropriation under apartheid has left a painful wound in South African society, which indeed ought to be corrected. However, the enduring principle of equitable and just (not necessarily market value) compensation in contemporary economics serves as an important reference point.

    If the South African government seizes private property for free, someone somewhere within the economy will have to pay, whether directly through loss in current and future on farm job opportunities as well as export revenues, or through protracted economic decline that will erode the purchasing power of money, losses in pensions and savings, and deindustrialisation that will destroy future economic growth and off-farm job opportunities for the current generation.

    Professor Johann Kirsten and Wandile Sihlobo are South African agricultural economists.
    https://qz.com/1218309/south-africa-...g-white-farms/
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  10. #40
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    The U.S. Government is not going to stop taking refugees, it will reduce the number, but it is not going to stop. We just got the Australian island group that Obama cut the deal for just before he left office. It is my understanding these folks were so "off" that they had to be kept on a separate island, but they are U.S. bound and are bringing ALL their baggage.

    Interesting, I see an attitude pattern here. After all, the colonialists in this county have only been here since the early 1600s. It is a political movement and South Africa is, in my opinion, a canary in the coal mine. But then, we all know about opinions .








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