Thread: Trump hits Twitter for Christmas

Originally Posted by Judy

Neither one of Trump's proposals are amnesty, because they have to leave. After they're out, then whatever happens in the future when or if they ever come back in legally, is just that, someone coming in legally, if "they're helping us". All the evidence says they aren't helping us, they're stealing jobs, running drugs, signing up for welfare, draining our school budgets, committing crimes, and a host of other issues that are not helping us. So, once they're all out, and if there's some need for legal immigrants, then that will be dealt with according to law at the time. Who knows when or if anyone will ever let them back in. Trump can't let them back in under current law once they're out. That would be up to Congress.

If you like Cruz and want to "cheerlead" for him, MW, that's fine. But comparing a deportation program with some remote possibility that some might be able to return at some point after they leave or are deported AND whenever Congress would see fit to change the law to allow it, is not the same thing as "amnesty". After all, a deported illegal alien is not eligible to return to the United States for a long time under current immigration law and under Trump's plan "we have to move 'em out".

So no, Trump is definitely not on the amnesty list, because Trump wants to deport them ... all, families intact, as a "single unit".

Trump will do a great job ending this illegal immigration mess and complete deportations within 2 years.

You're wrong, it is amnesty. Those that are deported are required by law to wait 10 years before applying to return legally. Trump is saying he'll fix it where the "good ones" can return immediately (refer to touchback program 2007). Yes, moving to the front of the line is amnesty. Furthermore, the merit system he offered is also amnesty and in that proposal he didn't say everyone has to leave, only the bad ones.

“I would get people out and then have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they can be legal…. A lot of these people are helping us … and sometimes it’s jobs a citizen of the United States doesn’t want to do. I want to move ’em out, and we’re going to move ’em back in and let them be legal.”
The key word is expedited. An expedited process is another way of saying that illegals are going to cut in line of those who have been waiting for years.
There is no question about it: that constitutes amnesty. Ron Fournier has described Trump’s plan as “gold-plated amnesty.”

http://www.redstate.com/diary/southe...r-deportation/

On his merit system proposal:

"well, the first thing we do is take the bad ones - of which there are, unfortunately, quite a few," said Trump, who owns three New Jersey golf courses and once owned three Atlantic City casinos. "We take the bad ones and get 'em the hell out. We get 'em out. "But he said the country should take a different approach with "the other ones" - i.e., undocumented immigrants who have "done a good job" since arriving in the U.S. "I'm a very big believer in the merit system," Trump said. "I have to tell you: Some of these people who have been here, they've done a good job. You know, in some cases sadly, they've been living under the shadows. ... If somebody's been outstanding, we try and work something out."

http://moonbattery.com/?p=61218

Both of these programs are clearly amnesty and there is no mistaking that fact. Everyone needs to be held to the same standard, whether it's Trump, Rubio, Cruz, Bush, etc. Amnesty is amnesty and it doesn't change just because the person saying it changes.

Additionally, on the touchback program he is promoting, he has said he would "fix it" where the "good ones" will get an "expedited" return. You say we should believe in and trust Trump, so why shouldn't we trust him when he says he'll fix it so the good illegals will get an expedited return?

No, MW. Here is the definition of amnesty in our language:

Full Definition of amnesty

plural am·nes·ties

: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals


Examples of amnesty

The government gave amnesty to all political prisoners.

Illegal immigrants who came into the country before 1982 were granted amnesty.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amnesty

Trump is not proposing a government pardon of any kind. What Trump is proposing is:

1. removal of all illegal aliens within 2 years
2. shut down immigration until Americans are back to work
3. let some who were here illegally return some day if they're needed or helping us in some meaningful way

Like Trump says "we've got to move 'em out of here".

Trump also says:

Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women's plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...gration-reform

Items 1 and 2 are totally within his authority as President without any act from Congress. Item 3 of course is not, that's up to Congress, not the President.

MW, you struggle with the whole Trump position because you don't understand how he's negotiating the deal.

The good folks of ALIPAC are smarter than that, Judy. We know an amnesty when we hear it! The information I posted clearly shows Trump supported or maybe even still supports a variation of amnesty.

Originally Posted by MW

The good folks of ALIPAC are smarter than that, Judy. We know an amnesty when we hear it! The information I posted clearly shows Trump supported or maybe even still supports a variation of amnesty.

MW, I've been part of the good folks of ALIPAC longer than you have, so let me assure you that the good folks here know the difference between a liar and a truth-teller and a deportation policy that "moves 'em out of here" versus an amnesty policy that pardons them with legal permanent residence.

Cruz is on record for 3 years in the US Senate including the first 9 months of his race for the Republican nomination supporting legal status for illegal aliens and pushing massive increased immigration levels.

Trump on the other hand is on record promoting a deportation policy to remove illegal aliens from the United States and a pause on legal immigration until Americans are back to work.

That's probably why 66% of the good folks here at ALIPAC support Trump.

ALIPAC doesn't endorse Presidential candidates but we have the freedom to express our views and cheerlead for candidates we like and there's no problem at all with members who like a different candidate for some reason than someone else. ALIPAC does however take official positions on members of Congress and has generally opposed members of Congress who supported legal resident status for illegal aliens instead of deportation and increased legal immigration which has been Ted Cruz's position for over 3 years. Yes, as of almost two weeks ago Cruz is singing a different tune and dancing a different jig after Rubio exposed him in the 5th GOP Debate on December 15, 2015 and the front-runner Trump supports mass deportations and a pause on immigration until Americans are back to work.

When members of Congress change their tune or positions as part of the normal course of their work and enlightenment, that's wonderful, that's what we try to achieve because convincing someone to change their view or position is what we're all about. Cruz was trapped by Rubio in a debate in front of 18 million viewers, and for political gain chose to lie and deny his support for legal status for illegal aliens because he wants to be President. He even called Rubio a liar for pointing it out, I guess Cruz forgot or didn't remember that "google is our friend" and in less than 10 minutes every viewer with a computer would know he lied about his positions on national TV.

When someone actually changes their position, they need to explain why they supported legal status for illegal aliens to win a tight Senate race in 2012, why they supported permanent legal status for illegal aliens but without the right to vote in 2013, and reconfirmed that position throughout their race for President until 2 weeks ago, and it should be for some reason greater than "I wanna be President."

What you're basically saying is it's okay to lie during a Senate race to win a seat in Congress by telling voters you support legal status and to lie during a Presidential race to try to be President by telling voters you never did.

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. To me, this is the embodiment of a corrupted soul.

I guess it's a lucky thing that Trump was never in the U.S. congress. As for you being here 10 months longer than me, does that mean you're more knowledgeable on what does and doesn't constitute amnesty?

Nice twist in you attempt to turn my own argument against me. However, it won't work because, regardless of what you say, Trump has spoken out in support of amnesty before. Actually, I don't know about the merit system, but he certainly hasn't walked back his "expedited return" for the "good ones" yet. My point has absolutely nothing to do with Cruz. My point is, Trump is not exempt from supporting amnesty in the past or now. To pretend otherwise just doesn't work. Everyone knew the "touchback" program was amnesty when it was proposed in 2007. Nothing has changed to alter that fact. Additionally, everyone knows a "merit system" that allows the "good ones" to stay is amnesty. Everyone knows it and has accepted it as fact, except maybe you.

Your point doesn't fly, it sinks like a lead balloon, because it's not factual. And everyone knows it.

Originally Posted by Judy

Your point doesn't fly, it sinks like a lead balloon, because it's not factual. And everyone knows it.

Facts are factual ....... that's why they're called facts. A merit system to legalize illegals is amnesty. A touchback program that moves illegals to the head of the line and forgives the 10 year requirement for return is amnesty. And everyone knows it. Too bad others won't chime in with their opinions. Although, I'm sure they lost interest in this discussion long ago.

Originally Posted by MW

Facts are factual ....... that's why they're called facts. A merit system to legalize illegals is amnesty. A touchback program that moves illegals to the head of the line and forgives the 10 year requirement for return is amnesty. And everyone knows it. Too bad others won't chime in with their opinions. Although, I'm sure they lost interest in this discussion long ago.

Trump is going to deport illegal aliens, not legalize them. Whatever happens after they're deported depends on US law which is up to Congress, not the President.

Wake Up Man. No one is chiming in because you're falsely attacking the Republican front-runner that as of a few weeks back had the support of 66% of this forum and by now probably has over 80%.

Originally Posted by Judy

Trump is going to deport illegal aliens, not legalize them. Whatever happens after they're deported depends on US law which is up to Congress, not the President.

Wake Up Man. No one is chiming in because you're falsely attacking the Republican front-runner that as of a few weeks back had the support of 66% of this forum and by now probably has over 80%.

Trump has promised to fix that (make it possible for their expedited return). Don't you trust him at his word?

I'm not "falsely attacking" anyone. I'm just simply identifying amnesty programs that have been or are now supported by Trump. I'd love to be part of a fantasy world where my thinking something actually made it so, but unfortunately that's not the way things work.

I trust Trump to deport illegal aliens as well as halt unwanted, unneeded immigration as promised in his immigration policy posted on his website. I trust Trump to enforce our laws and uphold our Constitution. I trust Trump to do this with good "management" that doesn't cause riots in the streets or harm to the American People.

I don't trust people who call that "amnesty".