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  1. #1
    Senior Member vegasvic's Avatar
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    U.S. Border Fence Plan Upsets Mexicans

    U.S. Border Fence Plan Upsets Mexicans
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ ... TE=DEFAULT

    By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ
    Associated Press Writer


    TIJUANA, Mexico (AP) -- Mexico lobbied for six years for a comprehensive immigration reform that would allow millions to cross into the United States legally. Instead, they're getting a fence.

    Mexicans - from leading politicians to migrants preparing to cross illegally - consider the U.S. plan to fence off much of the border shameful, offensive and ill-conceived.

    President Bush on Wednesday signed a bill that would allot $1.2 billion for hundreds of miles of fencing along the U.S.-Mexican border and for more vehicle barriers, lighting and infrared cameras.

    But migrants resting at a Tijuana shelter after being deported from the United States said more walls wouldn't deter them. Alfonso Martinez, a 32-year-old from southern Mexico, had been working as a farmhand for six months in Vista, Calif., when he was arrested and deported last week.




    "Wall or no wall, I will try at least three times," said Martinez, who said he would try to cross by himself through Tecate, a mountainous town about 35 miles east of Tijuana. "I have three girls that I have to support, and in Mexico there is no work."

    Mexican immigrants in the United States and the Mexican government had lobbied lawmakers for more ways to cross the border and work legally.

    While Bush had proposed a temporary worker program, it didn't garner enough support in Congress for passage. The idea has been dropped by Washington, at least until after the November congressional elections.

    Congress focused on security over immigration, arguing that the porous border could be used by terrorists who want to sneak into the U.S. undetected. There is no evidence that has happened, however.

    The Mexican government this week sent a diplomatic note to Washington criticizing the plan for 700 miles of new fencing along the border. Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez called it an "offense" and said Wednesday his office was considering taking the issue to the United Nations.

    But Ruben Aguilar, the spokesman for President Vicente Fox, said Thursday that Mexico had ruled out that possibility. He added he was "confident" the additional fencing would never become a reality because an immigration accord would eventually replace it.

    President-elect Felipe Calderon Thursday criticized the U.S. plan, but said the case is a bilateral issue that should not be taken to any international organization.

    "I think it is a deplorable decision that has been made by the United States Congress for the construction of this wall, and it does not solve our common problem, which is emigration," Calderon told a news conference in Santiago, Chile.

    Guillermo Alonzo, a migration expert at the Tijuana-based Colegio de La Frontera Norte, said fences instead will force migrants to look for new ways to sneak into the United States and find new routes through deadlier terrain.

    "When migrants are determined to cross, they find a way to jump the fences," Alonzo said. "Walls don't stop anything."

    Alonzo cited the construction of a fence between Tijuana and San Diego, known in Mexico as "the tortilla wall." It was completed in the 1990s and forced migrants into the sparsely populated and dangerous Arizona desert.

    While there are walls at various points along the border, the one in Tijuana is the longest stretch, running 14 miles west from the Otay border crossing and plunging into the Pacific Ocean.

    It has become a symbol of the divisive immigration issue, a blank slate for graffiti, crosses, photos and other remembrances of those who have lost their lives trying to sneak into the United States. Some families, divided by the border, even meet at the fence, talking through the metal wires.

    While the wall downgraded Tijuana from the illegal migration mecca it was in the 1990s, hundreds of migrants still come here, Alonzo said.

    "Now smugglers hide migrants in trunks of cars or get false documents," he said.

    Luis Kendzierski, a priest who directs a Tijuana migrant shelter, said building a wall is an unfriendly gesture that will lead to a hike in smugglers' fees and more migrant deaths.

    Between 2001 and 2006, almost 2,000 migrants died while trying to sneak into the United States, according to El Colegio de la Frontera Norte.

    "We are supposed to be neighbors and friends, and instead of building bridges and doors, we're building obstacles," Kendzierski said.

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    "When migrants are determined to cross, they find a way to jump the fences," Alonzo said. "Walls don't stop anything."
    If this is the case, why are they objecting so strenuously?

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    But in the next breath he contradicts himself, LOL
    Alonzo cited the construction of a fence between Tijuana and San Diego, known in Mexico as "the tortilla wall." It was completed in the 1990s and forced migrants into the sparsely populated and dangerous Arizona desert.
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    Border fence shameful, offensive and ill-conceived says Alonzo.

    All they talk about is the US makes it more difficult for the illegals to sneak in and how they die in the desert because of US policies.

    I think it is past time for Mexico to take responsobility, for the US....
    Having to put up a fence to slow the invasion.

    I have heard many times about Bush and Fox discussing a
    comprehensive (hate that word) immigration plan in the US.
    Do they ever talk about what Mexico can do for it's people, other
    than encouraging them to cross the border into our country?
    "When injustice become law, resistance becomes duty." Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member ruthiela's Avatar
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    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexi ... exico.html

    Experts predict chill in relations

    By S. Lynne Walker
    COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
    October 5, 2006

    MEXICO CITY – President Vicente Fox's government yesterday blasted as “useless and unworkable” the construction of hundreds of miles of new fences along the U.S.-Mexico border to stem illegal immigration.
    construction in San Diego is priced at $125 million.
    “Even though the wall was approved, there is no funding,” Aguilar told reporters.
    While Fox's government attempted to downplay the impact of the wall, immigration experts who gathered yesterday in the Mexico City offices of Baja California-based Colegio de la Frontera Norte said it is certain to mark a chilling of U.S.-Mexico relations.
    “In Mexico, it will be very difficult, in the face of negative public opinion, to have the same level of cooperation with the United States,” said Andrés Rozental, a former deputy foreign minister of Mexico who now heads the Mexican Council on Foreign Relations. “The symbolism of erecting a visible wall has an unfriendly connotation for a neighbor and a partner like Mexico.”
    The backlash over the wall is certain to spill into other critical areas such as trade, the fight against drug trafficking and efforts to combat terrorism, said Jorge Santibáñez, president of the Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
    “Confronted with these kinds of measures, Mexico has to question the entire relationship,” he said. “We have to read the message of the wall: That Mexico is not capable of controlling its border.”
    Mexico has strongly objected to the fence, which it sees as an affront to Fox's efforts to negotiate an immigration agreement.
    On Monday, the Mexican government sent a diplomatic note to Washington criticizing last week's U.S. Senate vote to authorize the new fencing. And on Tuesday, all eight political parties in Mexico's Congress urged Fox to take diplomatic steps to stop the construction of the fences.
    President-elect Felipe Calderón criticized the U.S. measure during a trip this week to Central America, saying fences “are truly obstacles to the mutually beneficial relationship that two neighboring countries must have.”
    As the Fox government lodges its protest with the Bush administration, it must also confront Mexico's dependence on the money sent home by migrants, said Rodolfo Tuirán, an immigration specialist at the Autonomous Technological Institute of Mexico. The Mexican government predicts nearly $25 billion will be sent home this year. Only 93 of Mexico's 2,350 municipalities do not receive money from migrants working in the United States.
    Mexico's biggest challenge is to create economic and job growth, said Tuirán. “Our country is addicted to immigration,” he said. “If the wall is announcing an end to the tolerance of migrants in the United States, then we are facing a serious problem.”
    END OF AN ERA 1/20/2009

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    Senior Member sawdust's Avatar
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    Alfonso Martinez, a 32-year-old from southern Mexico, had been working as a farmhand for six months in Vista, Calif., when he was arrested and deported last week.
    "Wall or no wall, I will try at least three times," said Martinez, who said he would try to cross by himself through Tecate, a mountainous town about 35 miles east of Tijuana.

    This proves that they know that they will not be punished for re-entering the U.S.

  7. #7
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    The backlash over the wall is certain to spill into other critical areas such as trade, the fight against drug trafficking and efforts to combat terrorism, said Jorge Santibáñez, president of the Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
    I don't know what the rest of you think, but that sounds mighty close to a threat to me.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Senior Member americangirl's Avatar
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    "Wall or no wall, I will try at least three times," said Martinez, who said he would try to cross by himself through Tecate, a mountainous town about 35 miles east of Tijuana. "I have three girls that I have to support, and in Mexico there is no work."
    Well, Mr. Martinez....perhaps you should have thought of this before you had all those children!!!
    Calderon was absolutely right when he said...."Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico".

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    The backlash over the wall is certain to spill into other critical areas such as trade, the fight against drug trafficking and efforts to combat terrorism, said Jorge Santibáñez, president of the Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
    Do you suppose that George Bush signed off on the fence and wasn't so concerned about ticking off Vicente after we got word a few weeks back that more oil was found in the Gulf of Mexico?

  10. #10
    Senior Member LegalUSCitizen's Avatar
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    I don't know what is going on there.

    I firmly believe that Mexico is threatening us directly maybe even worse than we know in conversations between Vicente Fox and George Bush. There is really no telling what is being said or threatened in those conversations.

    The question I have is whether President Bush gives in to threats from other countries ?

    What's really going on here is hard to tell.
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