Thread: Independence Day Poem

Originally Posted by PatrioticSandra

"All the biblical miracles will at last disappear with the progress of science." - Matthew Arnold

Well they haven't proven God to not be real and they are proving more and more of the Bible true.

Believe me , I know how many non believers are in this world , why do you think it just keeps getting worse and worse.

Just something to share with you [/quote]

Atheists Supply Less Than 1% Of Prison Populations

Exactly how many non-believers (or in other words, people who don't think exactly the way you do) do you know who have done you wrong?

Because you can't understand something doesn't mean an invisible man in the sky made it or put it there. Just because science doesn't have an answer for something doesn't mean some sort of god is responsible.

I don't believe in an afterlife which gives my life here and now meaning. When I do wrong I have to answer to myself and the people to whom I've done wrong. I try to do good deeds every day. Women, children, and poor people are high on my list to help. I am kind to animals.

"Well they haven't proven God to not be real and they are proving more and more of the Bible true."

Tell me one.

Originally Posted by arizona85032

Originally Posted by Doots

Originally Posted by arizona85032

Our brains, which art in our heads,
treasured be thy name.
Thy reasoning come.
Thy best you can do be done
on earth as it is.
Give us this day new
insight to help us resolve conflicts and
ease pain.
And lead us not
into supernatural explanations;
deliver us from denial of logic.
For thine is the kingdom of reason,
and even though thy powers are limited,
and you're not always glorious
you are the best evolutionary adaptation
we have for helping this earth now and
forever and ever.
So be it.

Your entitled to your beliefs "arizona85032" just as I am mine.

You'll find that historically (and I'm not talking about the inaccurate revisionist history of today) our country was founded on Godly principles. We've strayed from those Godly principles. Thus, our nation as it is today is without morals, loyality and decency. This was not the intent of our founding fathers.


The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.â€

Originally Posted by PatrioticSandra

"All the biblical miracles will at last disappear with the progress of science." - Matthew Arnold

Well they haven't proven God to not be real and they are proving more and more of the Bible true.

Believe me , I know how many non believers are in this world , why do you think it just keeps getting worse and worse.

Just something to share with you

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

This students statements are true, can you or can you not make night darker?

Is it possible for it to get colder after absolute zero -458 degree's F.

Can you feel,taste,see,hear,or smell your brain,

If you support this students statements than repost.

God in heaven won't mind if you do or don't.

No you won't go to hell.

your conscience may or may not feel great if you do

It's simply a personal decision that is the free will unto which GOD has given you[/quote]
----------------------------

Well said PatrioticSandra.

Originally Posted by Doots

arizona85032: No one is forcing you to read certain posts, and no one is excluding you from anything.

True, this website is about Illegal Immigration. But you'll notice there are "other threads" on this website for "other subjects." They were put there for a reason.

FYI: Last I checked, we still live in a semi-free country. Therefore I will not be silenced by those who don't agree with me; just as I have no right to do the same to others.

Your welcome to put your "two cents" in, just as I am.

We are in this fight together my friend. We need no infighting amongst us.

I'm trying to point out that when this sort of thing is posted, that it can exclude other people both of different faith and the faithless like myself. I'm also trying to say that while others have been talked to in the past fro posting things that don't have anything to do with illegal immigration, this has nothing to do with the subject, yet it's all over the board and no on says anything about it. I've even run across conspiracy theories with no source to back it up, yet there it still is.
Yes, I will put in my two cents from time to time. I am a free thinker and I can be very vocal about what I am about. If prayer chains and the like can be posted on this board, then I shouldn't be expected to remain silent just because I don't believe in all this 'good news'. That's just not fair. I don't get frustrated very often but it does happens from time to time. Especially when I've been bombarded by this all day at work, then by my family.
I was looking for pictures of the condition of the border to send to a few people who don't live here so that they understand what people on the border states are going through. So I find what I thought was going to be a witty Independence Day poem, maybe talking about our independence from foreign oil or freedom from the invasion and I find a prayer (that had already been sent to me by well meaning relatives). That's what really annoyed me. So yes, be prepared for me to offer a little Atheist insight and reason every once in awhile. Like I said, there are many of us out there and when it comes to this issue, this one wants the same things you do.

Originally Posted by arizona85032

Originally Posted by Doots

arizona85032: No one is forcing you to read certain posts, and no one is excluding you from anything.

True, this website is about Illegal Immigration. But you'll notice there are "other threads" on this website for "other subjects." They were put there for a reason.

FYI: Last I checked, we still live in a semi-free country. Therefore I will not be silenced by those who don't agree with me; just as I have no right to do the same to others.

Your welcome to put your "two cents" in, just as I am.

We are in this fight together my friend. We need no infighting amongst us.

I'm trying to point out that when this sort of thing is posted, that it can exclude other people both of different faith and the faithless like myself. I'm also trying to say that while others have been talked to in the past fro posting things that don't have anything to do with illegal immigration, this has nothing to do with the subject, yet it's all over the board and no on says anything about it. I've even run across conspiracy theories with no source to back it up, yet there it still is.
Yes, I will put in my two cents from time to time. I am a free thinker and I can be very vocal about what I am about. If prayer chains and the like can be posted on this board, then I shouldn't be expected to remain silent just because I don't believe in all this 'good news'. That's just not fair. I don't get frustrated very often but it does happens from time to time. Especially when I've been bombarded by this all day at work, then by my family.
I was looking for pictures of the condition of the border to send to a few people who don't live here so that they understand what people on the border states are going through. So I find what I thought was going to be a witty Independence Day poem, maybe talking about our independence from foreign oil or freedom from the invasion and I find a prayer (that had already been sent to me by well meaning relatives). That's what really annoyed me. So yes, be prepared for me to offer a little Atheist insight and reason every once in awhile. Like I said, there are many of us out there and when it comes to this issue, this one wants the same things you do.

I understand what your saying. As a christian, I am bombarded day in and day out with anti-God rhetoric on the tv, internet, malls, schools, magazines.... I can go on and on.

Originally Posted by Doots

Originally Posted by arizona85032

Originally Posted by Doots

arizona85032: No one is forcing you to read certain posts, and no one is excluding you from anything.

True, this website is about Illegal Immigration. But you'll notice there are "other threads" on this website for "other subjects." They were put there for a reason.

FYI: Last I checked, we still live in a semi-free country. Therefore I will not be silenced by those who don't agree with me; just as I have no right to do the same to others.

Your welcome to put your "two cents" in, just as I am.

We are in this fight together my friend. We need no infighting amongst us.

I'm trying to point out that when this sort of thing is posted, that it can exclude other people both of different faith and the faithless like myself. I'm also trying to say that while others have been talked to in the past fro posting things that don't have anything to do with illegal immigration, this has nothing to do with the subject, yet it's all over the board and no on says anything about it. I've even run across conspiracy theories with no source to back it up, yet there it still is.
Yes, I will put in my two cents from time to time. I am a free thinker and I can be very vocal about what I am about. If prayer chains and the like can be posted on this board, then I shouldn't be expected to remain silent just because I don't believe in all this 'good news'. That's just not fair. I don't get frustrated very often but it does happens from time to time. Especially when I've been bombarded by this all day at work, then by my family.
I was looking for pictures of the condition of the border to send to a few people who don't live here so that they understand what people on the border states are going through. So I find what I thought was going to be a witty Independence Day poem, maybe talking about our independence from foreign oil or freedom from the invasion and I find a prayer (that had already been sent to me by well meaning relatives). That's what really annoyed me. So yes, be prepared for me to offer a little Atheist insight and reason every once in awhile. Like I said, there are many of us out there and when it comes to this issue, this one wants the same things you do.

I understand what your saying. As a christian, I am bombarded day in and day out with anti-God rhetoric on the TV, Internet, malls, schools, magazines.... I can go on and on.

That is so true. So am I. I'm bombarded by the ACLU who only has one side of the issue. Trying to take down monuments that have been there for decades because ONE person WANTED to be offended. Mature adults can AGREE TO DISAGREE. I think that's just fine.

I see your angst Arizona seems to really be with your family. No one here sent you anything or pointed it toward you as your family did. Let bygones be bygones. It will not stop on this website. So just pass up the posts or posters you disagree with and don't read the Prayer Thread or anything close to it if it makes you uncomfortable. It isn't personal.

I haven't and had no intention of reading the prayer thread. My frustration isn't with my family. Not all of them knows where I stand because I am sure it would kill certain members literally if I were to come out with the truth about who I am. I simply avoid those types of conversations. The rest accept me for who I am.
What frustrates me is that this is supposed to be a forum about illegal immigration and only illegal immigration yet there is religion intertwined throughout it. It's supposed to be opened to all types of people yet weaving that message through it closes the door to everyone else. It says to me: "We accept all Americans, just as long as you are a Christian American.". I commented on another video where Obama says this isn't a nation of just Christians because there was a comment that implied he was trying to destroy the USA.
My point is that this isn't a Christians only forum and when you post things of this nature it excludes people. It seems almost deliberate and from my point of view, paints you into a very small corner.
I was told that there was "other threads" on this website for "other subjects." Well, prayer threads and the like are also "other subjects".
When those on this board accuse people like myself for being the reason for the downfall of this country, it shuts me and others like me out,w ho could be very effective in this fight to get the invaders out of here, even more so, and believe me when I say, you aren't the ones being bombarded by anti-Christian rhetoric in society. If anything, 911 made this an even more Christian oriented society. I am singled out in society more than you could possibly realize just because I am a supporter of evolution. There is a huge double standard in this country. I am told that Atheists are the root of evil yet these people who stealing over here in the dead of night are heavily Catholic. They do wrongs to my fellow citizens yet they are religious in every aspect of their lives. But, it's not because they are Catholic that I want them gone. It's not because they are religious that I want them gone. It's because they rob, rape, steal, and squat that I want them gone. It's because they drag my American flag on the ground while waving theirs high in the air that I want them gone. It's because they are draining our tax dollars through health care, anchor babies, and remedial public school classes that I want them gone. I don't want to learn Spanish out of necessity. It want to learn it out of a love for the language.

Arizona I'm sorry you feel that way. You are welcome. No doubt about it. I have friends on all sides of the political issues also. In fact, we emphatically disagree and many issues. HOWEVER, this is the one issue we come together on. Let's concentrate on what we do agree on and not the ones we don't.

Gogo is right. Let's concentrate on what we do agree on.

I hope you stick with us here on ALIPAC arizona85032. We don't want to lose you.

You said you needed pics on the border conditions. "ladyofshallot" posted some pics and a video recently. http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-732919-.html#732919.