Thread: 2 Cops Killed by 'Sovereigns" Who Shun U.S. Laws

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DOMESTIC TERRORISM

The Sovereign Citizen Movement

04/13/10

Some examples of illegal license plates used by so-called sovereign citizens.

Domestic terrorism—Americans attacking Americans because of U.S.-based extremist ideologies—comes in many forms in our post 9/11 world.

To help educate the public, we’ve previously outlined two separate domestic terror threats—eco-terrorists/animal rights extremists and lone offenders.

Today, we look at a third threat—the “sovereign citizenâ€

GoodVibrations, I agree. Divide and conquer.

We all have to ask ourselves something......what if almost everything the government, ADL, and ACLU tell us is a conspiracy theory, is actually true? What if every group they focused on and said were dangerous, was actually not?

I have to question a lot these days, things are turned around completely, and we have to simply wonder if we have been living in this false reality that has been put on for us, makes us think we are living a certain way, then suddenly we "wake-up" to what reality really is....

Maybe those people they have told us were fringe, lunatics and conspiracy theorists were not at all who they said, but the opposite.

I have never held a gun in my hand, really do not want to have to. I could not say this man was right for handling this in the way he did. He took innocent lives, beyond that of his sons and his own. These officers were not privy to anything beyond their jobs, and they truly were innocent of any wrong doing this man and son thought the government had done.

This is a really sad story, no person should assume this is the way to handle anything, and certainly no reasonable way to represent their belief system.

Here is Judge Napolitano on Obama's Assassination Program - no protection of law for citizens anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qzs-57av0s

I agree with you AmericanElizabeth. It is just like when I see somebody I never heard of suddenly slammed as a pedophile in local media I figure pedophilia most likely had nothing to do with it. I figure more likely the individual is a whistleblower that needs to be marginalized before they can out the government. I just don't have any trust anymore. Everything is inside out and upside down. False reality concept I do accept but what the true reality is I still am not sure or maybe I am sure but I'm doing that DABDA thing = Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. I guess I'm still fluctuating between anger, bargaining with my vote and hopes that there are enough with integrity to make a difference, alternating with depression and being overwhelmed with all the issues - but I sure as H*E*L*L don't accept it yet!

Years ago I heard a radio show that enticed me to a meeting being held by a group such as is being discussed here. I do not recall what they named themselves but it was extremely interesting and I really did want to stick around but I feared that I was not "white" enough to be accepted by them and I was also fearful of doing as they advocated. I suspected that if I hung around for more meetings eventually I would learn enough to feel strong in taking the actions they advocated. They really were a strange group to me. Kind of ragtag in that they dressed very traditionally - the men with plaid flannel shirts and jeans and lots of them looked like they patched up their clothes and shoes rather than buy from people they did not support. I don't recall seeing weapons but somehow I remember sensing lots of weapons. Turned out they had a group dinner before radio invites arrived so most of the wives were in the kitchen cleaning up or off in other areas tending to the children so it seemed sexist from my perspective at that time.

But they did have lots of good information and legal knowledge sharing even from Old English law so they had the historical background which enhances understanding of true meaning and intent. I seem to remember the distinction between Iroquois nation and old English law being discussed in the formation of our nation's Constitution. I was fascinated and terrified at the same time - afraid that they were raging racists that would cause me harm if they discovered my heritage. They also were feeling very vulnerable and insisted that each "guest" sign a sheet giving personal information and promising not to compromise the group.

A couple of years ago someone in one of these type of groups contacted my brown husband and he was very intrigued. So maybe they are not all as racist as I feared. I canceled that out of his head - I'm just not ready to go there and really I think that if he went there and I was not in agree-ance it would be divorce time. Not sure why I am so against it. Maybe because Irwin Schiff has spent so much time in jail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff

So I agree that these groups obviously have some good going on in them or people would not keep going back. The problem is how to overcome our differences and agree on course of action that is mutually acceptable before the Internet Kill Switch is activated.

From JohnDoe2's Wikipedia article about this sovereign movement -

"The myth holds that governmental courts are mere "colour of law and right" institutions that only have jurisdiction over legal persons."

Hmmmmm . . . . now haven't I been saying that U.S. law and U.S. constitution applies to U.S. citizens only? So this "myth" strengthens my perception - having jurisdiction only over "legal persons."

If this "myth" stating that our birth certificates are legal documents giving ownership of us to the federal government is true, and they are broke, and we see how money is what motivates them more than anything - then we can understand their logic of wanting more citizens from any source because somehow it means money in their pockets.

and, and . . . n a mass e-mail early in 2010, Mr. Kennedy vowed to use his show to present a "final remedy to the enslavement at the hands of corporations posing as legitimate government."

A subtitle on this video says that the Bilderberger group wishes to rule the world through corporations rather than national governments which meshes with the above statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLAOtf6 ... r_embedded

Still not ready to go there.

Sarum it does seem like an alternate reality, doesn't it?

My opinion on it all...OUR nation does exist, under the Constitution only, but, we have a rogue governmental body that has been calling the shots, thinking we are asleep at the wheel, which most have been, for some time now. This body of rogue elected officials and some of the things they have set up over the years, are what is wrong.

We the people are that sovereign nation, as a body, and I believe we can reclaim that, together, have our laws enforced again, and cleanse our system of the filth that has come to make this nation weighted down. The only way to do that is to stick together, and work to vote out anyone who will not uphold the Constitution.

In other words, no manner of gun use or violence is needed, nor should ever be used. I believe that we do have the ability to do this, but Americans need to stick together and not let themselves get sidelined by "fringe" (let them be the ones labeled as wacko) government people who use false accussations (although with this man, there was some sort of issues) and labels to try to divide us. Once we accomplish this, we can change things in peaceful ways.

Then, you have to wonder if the rogue government, and it's dirty partners of big business/big biz farming, have not wanted to try to dilute the will of the American people by allowing millions of undocumented people to overrun us, intentionally, and keep attempting to make them voters? It all certainly fits and most of us have figured it out, so they now have to try to deflect by calling us racists, fearmongers, xenophobes and any other name they believe will scare us into submission again.

Yes I do wish that the illegal aliens would realize that they are being "useful idiots" for a vile agenda.

I do not think that we are asleep at the wheel, it's more like working parents simply do not have time to keep up with all the issues or even one issue comprehensively. If we had trustworthy media that we could count on to brief us on truth unbiased and unvarnished that would be a huge help. Media people that I somewhat counted on lost my trust during the healthcare reform debacle when they all parroted the exact same talking points obviously financed by the insurance industry. And the going on and on about the greatest healthcare system in the world is an unbearable lie imho - so I do still listen occasionally due to lack of anybody else - and until the neighbors can hear me hurling insults at the radio. hee hee

Personally I have been having some fear issues going on about the issue germane to this forum - some that I have dared not air here, nor will I.

I pray that what you say is correct AmericanElizabeth - I do not welcome conflict. We here are not the ones claiming that "we will shoot police in Arizona until we get free." At this time prayer seems to be the only action left to me - and so I begin in all seriousness.

Sarum, most Americans want a "revolution" but not a violent one, not one won with physical struggle, we want one won by our intelligence and votes. We can do it, and it will happen.

I can say, I can understand the ideas and feelings behind those who have joined the sovereign citizen movement, but I also feel that my beliefs, based on Biblical principals, that we must adhere to the laws we currently have, and must work within those to revise our government, as the Bible says that there is not a government appointed to man that God is not aware of, and not having in place for a purpose. It is our government, it is sadly awry, but we have to keep working for the change we know we need, within the boundries of our original Constitutional laws, then we might get to be the righteous that will inherit the land here .

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Sovereign Citizen Movement -- Extremism in America

The 'sovereign citizen' movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in ...
www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4

So what? They are in opposition to the progressive movement that's a closely organized collection of groups and individuals presently in control of government who have adopted a left wing anarchist ideology.

This was a good refresher for me because without my realizing it, other media are putting out the principles and truths of the sovereign movement so I learn a little more every day.

loservillelabor, you have a strong point. Their reaction to this oppressive government we have has been to go the opposite way. I just abhor the idea of using guns. I was always told guns were a last resort weapon and I can't see this is yet a last resort situation.