Thread: 21 dead in clash between Mexican army, drug gang

21 dead in clash between Mexican army, drug gang

Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:02:31 GMT



Mexico has deployed 36,000 troops to fight drug cartels

At least 21 people have been killed in a fight between gunmen and Mexico's army after gang members kidnapped nine people in the state of Chihuahua.

The gunmen murdered six of the hostages while the Mexican soldiers killed fourteen gangsters on Tuesday, AFP reported.

At least one army soldier was killed in the gunfight.

The accident took place in the town of Villa Ahumada in the northern territories where Mexico's drug cartels have carried out deadly attacks recently, killing more than 220 people in separate clashes.

Mexico's bloody drug war killed around 5,300 in 2008 despite the government's campaign to crack down on the gang members.

Analysts blame corrupt elements in the police and government for the crime wave in Mexico.

ARQN/HGL

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=85 ... =351020705

I'm glad to Mexico is using their army. I wish them the very best to fight this.

Also with we didn't have so many dumb azz Americans who use drugs too.

I think we should legalize it, regulate it, make it American supplied, control it under a civil code instead of a criminal code, tax it, keep the $300 Billion a year that's sucked out of our nation every year in drug sales, stop the crime committed by drug cartels, drug gangs and even police, use part of the taxes to better educate the public about the risk of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it ... and stop worrying about what people do with drugs. At least no one is killing people over it, no one is stealing our money supply over it, no one is using it as an excuse to enter our country illegally, no one is killing our police officers over it and no police are killing our citizens over it.

For more information: Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP):

www.leap.cc

During the 1970’s a violent heroin market led the Dutch government to establish a drug policy working group which came to be known as the Baan Commission. Its recommendations largely determined the course of the Netherlands’ drug policy. The core features of the Dutch system as established by the Baan Commission are rooted in the concept of harm reduction, i.e., the minimization of the risks and hazards of drug use rather than the suppression of all drugs. Dutch drug policy gives priority to health care and prevention while, simultaneously, directing aggressive enforcement measures against organized crime.

With respect to the supply side of the drug market, Dutch drug policy reflects the international repressive norm. On the demand side of the equation, however, a unique approach is evident. The Dutch policy recognizes that drug use may often just be a youthful indiscretion, but emphasizes compassion and treatment for those who develop drug use problems. Using this pragmatic approach, the government sets clear priorities based on the perceived risks of particular drugs. Public health is the overriding concern. Key elements of Dutch drug policy include:

the central aim is the prevention or alleviation of social and individual risks caused by drug use;

there must be a rational relation between those risks and policy measures;

a differentiation of policy measures must also take into account the risks of legal recreational and medical drugs;

repressive measures against drug trafficking (other than trafficking of cannabis) are a priority; and

the inadequacy of criminal law with respect to other aspects (i.e., apart from trafficking) of the drug problem is recognized.

A key aspect of Dutch drug policy is the notion of market separation. By classifying drugs according to the risks posed and then pursuing policies that serve to isolate each market, it is felt that users of soft drugs are less likely to come into contact with users of hard drugs. Thus, the theory goes, users of soft drugs are less likely to try hard drugs. Possession of small amounts of cannabis for personal use has been decriminalized in the Netherlands. The sale of cannabis is technically an offence under the Opium Act, but prosecutorial guidelines provide that proceedings will only be instituted in certain situations.

Separating the markets by allowing people to purchase soft drugs in a setting where they are not exposed to the criminal subculture surrounding hard drugs is intended to create a social barrier that prevents people experimenting with drugs like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine, drugs deemed an “unacceptable risk.â€

Dutch rates of drug use are lower than U.S. rates in every category.

Originally Posted by Judy

I think we should legalize it, regulate it, make it American supplied, control it under a civil code instead of a criminal code, tax it, keep the $300 Billion a year that's sucked out of our nation every year in drug sales, stop the crime committed by drug cartels, drug gangs and even police, use part of the taxes to better educate the public about the risk of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it ... and stop worrying about what people do with drugs.

The CIA and NSA 'special-ops' would suffer from the lack of funding!

I politely request that we encourage these know it all libertarians - who push ridiculous non sense that free markets, legalize every form of behavior will solve all our horrible problems like murderous Mexican drug cartels kidnapping, torturing and beheading regular folks in Mexico and now in our USA.

The Dutch - with the exception of brave Dutch westerners like Geert Wilders, Pym Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh who risked their lives, gave their lives standing up to the Muslim mass immigration invasion of Holland = these Dutch patriots should be honored and studied to learn how we can find such courage.

As for the rest of this Dutch Libertarian legalize all drugs, sexual lifestyles stuff - how about confining it to some Libertarian web site like Reason Magazine.

True believer 1% cult Libertarians believe in the free movement of capital, labor - unlimited immigration and deny that there are any differences in peoples (Nations, tribes, races etc).

The rest of us 99% non cult libertarians know better.

We know that there are people in Central America and Mexico that are different than regular Middle Class Americans (calls us Anglos, Gringos whatever) - we don't have to watch Mel Gibson's movies about violent, corrupt Mayan civilizations to understand what goes on South of the US Border and now spills over into horrible bloodshed in our country - LA, Phoenix, Chicago.

So please, libertarians who insist on posting these "free market", "legalize" everything solutions to horrible drug crime, gang murder problems - can you guys go hang out someplace else.

This forum is addressing the live or die issue of mass immigration into the the US - the West from people who are very different than "Us".

You libertarian folks want to go "Save the world" by preaching your Libertarian cult of free markets etc - how about becoming Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman missionaries in Haiti, El Salvador or Somalia?

Don't lose your head, but if you do, we will understand why the locals took offense.

$*#@($@ idiots!




[quote="carolinamtnwoman"]During the 1970’s a violent heroin market led the Dutch government to establish a drug policy working group which came to be known as the Baan Commission. Its recommendations largely determined the course of the Netherlands’ drug policy. The core features of the Dutch system as established by the Baan Commission are rooted in the concept of harm reduction, i.e., the minimization of the risks and hazards of drug use rather than the suppression of all drugs. Dutch drug policy gives priority to health care and prevention while, simultaneously, directing aggressive enforcement measures against organized crime.

With respect to the supply side of the drug market, Dutch drug policy reflects the international repressive norm. On the demand side of the equation, however, a unique approach is evident. The Dutch policy recognizes that drug use may often just be a youthful indiscretion, but emphasizes compassion and treatment for those who develop drug use problems. Using this pragmatic approach, the government sets clear priorities based on the perceived risks of particular drugs. Public health is the overriding concern. Key elements of Dutch drug policy include:

the central aim is the prevention or alleviation of social and individual risks caused by drug use;

there must be a rational relation between those risks and policy measures;

a differentiation of policy measures must also take into account the risks of legal recreational and medical drugs;

repressive measures against drug trafficking (other than trafficking of cannabis) are a priority; and

the inadequacy of criminal law with respect to other aspects (i.e., apart from trafficking) of the drug problem is recognized.

A key aspect of Dutch drug policy is the notion of market separation. By classifying drugs according to the risks posed and then pursuing policies that serve to isolate each market, it is felt that users of soft drugs are less likely to come into contact with users of hard drugs. Thus, the theory goes, users of soft drugs are less likely to try hard drugs. Possession of small amounts of cannabis for personal use has been decriminalized in the Netherlands. The sale of cannabis is technically an offence under the Opium Act, but prosecutorial guidelines provide that proceedings will only be instituted in certain situations.

Separating the markets by allowing people to purchase soft drugs in a setting where they are not exposed to the criminal subculture surrounding hard drugs is intended to create a social barrier that prevents people experimenting with drugs like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine, drugs deemed an “unacceptable risk.â€

[quote="johnelis"]I politely request that we encourage these know it all libertarians - who push ridiculous non sense that free markets, legalize every form of behavior will solve all our horrible problems like murderous Mexican drug cartels kidnapping, torturing and beheading regular folks in Mexico and now in our USA.

The Dutch - with the exception of brave Dutch westerners like Geert Wilders, Pym Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh who risked their lives, gave their lives standing up to the Muslim mass immigration invasion of Holland = these Dutch patriots should be honored and studied to learn how we can find such courage.

As for the rest of this Dutch Libertarian legalize all drugs, sexual lifestyles stuff - how about confining it to some Libertarian web site like Reason Magazine.

True believer 1% cult Libertarians believe in the free movement of capital, labor - unlimited immigration and deny that there are any differences in peoples (Nations, tribes, races etc).

The rest of us 99% non cult libertarians know better.

We know that there are people in Central America and Mexico that are different than regular Middle Class Americans (calls us Anglos, Gringos whatever) - we don't have to watch Mel Gibson's movies about violent, corrupt Mayan civilizations to understand what goes on South of the US Border and now spills over into horrible bloodshed in our country - LA, Phoenix, Chicago.

So please, libertarians who insist on posting these "free market", "legalize" everything solutions to horrible drug crime, gang murder problems - can you guys go hang out someplace else.

This forum is addressing the live or die issue of mass immigration into the the US - the West from people who are very different than "Us".

You libertarian folks want to go "Save the world" by preaching your Libertarian cult of free markets etc - how about becoming Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman missionaries in Haiti, El Salvador or Somalia?

Don't lose your head, but if you do, we will understand why the locals took offense.

$*#@($@ idiots!




[quote="carolinamtnwoman"]During the 1970’s a violent heroin market led the Dutch government to establish a drug policy working group which came to be known as the Baan Commission. Its recommendations largely determined the course of the Netherlands’ drug policy. The core features of the Dutch system as established by the Baan Commission are rooted in the concept of harm reduction, i.e., the minimization of the risks and hazards of drug use rather than the suppression of all drugs. Dutch drug policy gives priority to health care and prevention while, simultaneously, directing aggressive enforcement measures against organized crime.

With respect to the supply side of the drug market, Dutch drug policy reflects the international repressive norm. On the demand side of the equation, however, a unique approach is evident. The Dutch policy recognizes that drug use may often just be a youthful indiscretion, but emphasizes compassion and treatment for those who develop drug use problems. Using this pragmatic approach, the government sets clear priorities based on the perceived risks of particular drugs. Public health is the overriding concern. Key elements of Dutch drug policy include:

the central aim is the prevention or alleviation of social and individual risks caused by drug use;

there must be a rational relation between those risks and policy measures;

a differentiation of policy measures must also take into account the risks of legal recreational and medical drugs;

repressive measures against drug trafficking (other than trafficking of cannabis) are a priority; and

the inadequacy of criminal law with respect to other aspects (i.e., apart from trafficking) of the drug problem is recognized.

A key aspect of Dutch drug policy is the notion of market separation. By classifying drugs according to the risks posed and then pursuing policies that serve to isolate each market, it is felt that users of soft drugs are less likely to come into contact with users of hard drugs. Thus, the theory goes, users of soft drugs are less likely to try hard drugs. Possession of small amounts of cannabis for personal use has been decriminalized in the Netherlands. The sale of cannabis is technically an offence under the Opium Act, but prosecutorial guidelines provide that proceedings will only be instituted in certain situations.

Separating the markets by allowing people to purchase soft drugs in a setting where they are not exposed to the criminal subculture surrounding hard drugs is intended to create a social barrier that prevents people experimenting with drugs like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine, drugs deemed an “unacceptable risk.â€

Originally Posted by carolinamtnwoman

Dutch rates of drug use are lower than U.S. rates in every category.

Exactly.

For more information:

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP)

www.leap.cc

Originally Posted by johnelis

So please, libertarians who insist on posting these "free market", "legalize" everything solutions to horrible drug crime, gang murder problems - can you guys go hang out someplace else.

This forum is addressing the live or die issue of mass immigration into the the US - the West from people who are very different than "Us".

$*#@($@ idiots!

FYI johnelis:

There is no single theory that can be accurately identified as the libertarian theory, and no single principle or set of principles to which all libertarians would agree. I am not a 'cult' libertarian as you implied, in fact, I do not ascribe to any particular political doctrine, and I am vehemently opposed to mass immigration as well. Also, I, personally, did not state that I supported the legalization of drugs but was merely posting information from an article on the alternative, societal viewpoint of those from the Netherlands in a completely unbiased, non-partisan manner.

I beg to differ, but this particular forum is for "Other Topics News and Issues." In the future, I suggest that you please refrain from resorting to name-calling members when you disagree with issues and/or postings, which this site does not condone.