Thread: Desperate California Could Split Into 4 States

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is proposing to sell San Quentin along with a number of other California landmarks to raise money to help solve the state's budget problems.

Schwarzenegger is also proposing to sell the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, Cal Expo in Sacramento, the Cow Palace in Daly City, Del Mar Racetrack near San Diego, and Orange County Fairgrounds and other properties to raise as much as $1 billion.

Even if they create an account for each legal resident and split up and deposit the proceeds in our accounts I would still have a problem with the fact I wasn't consulted and allowed to vote on the exceptance of a sale.

Anything else is flat our robbery.

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Originally Posted by StokeyBob

. . . Not everyone here is a liberal. Was Ronald Reagan? Remember he was from California and was put into office by us not that long ago. NOW you think we are, what you hear we are, from a bought and paid for media. Most of you should know better having seen their work first hand.

I'm note sure Reagan is a good example since he gave amnesty to more than 3 MILLION illegal alien in 1986 and started this mess thay we have now.

There is good and bad in everything. I wouldn't hold that as his finer moments though I do remember him accomplishing some things I was proud of.

I would venture that the result of what Reagan did was to try and put an end to actions put in motion with the help of Ted Kennedy and others back in 1965.


Here is an old quote about him.

"Ted Kennedy was a strong supporter of the 1965 Hart-Celler Act signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson which dramatically changed US immigration policy.

This is what Ted Kennedy said about the 1965 bill.

"The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."

Kennedy is now the chair of the United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security and Citizenship, and remains a strong advocate for immigrants, both documented and undocumented.




I hope no one is foolish enough to fall for or allow an amnesty to happen again.


Though we have had several since.

Selling infrastructure for any reason is pure insanity, as who has the money to buy these days except foreigners? Selling a toll road or bridge almost guarantees a quick budget fix or profit, while the purchasers will be gathering money out of American pockets forever. Taxpayer dollars built these roads and it is grand larceny to pull the carpet out from under them. I can't guarantee that coliseums and other public buildings also did not get contributions of taxpayer money that went into the developer's pocket. And how does any municipality or local government raise money to contribute to these kind of projects?--usually through sale of bonds to local and remote citizens, further strapping the issuer in debt with interest payments into the future. And if bonds do get called, it usually means another bond issuance will be able to cover the purchase of the first.
And what happens when governments run out of public infrastructure to sell--do they pull eminent domain for the "public good" and sell your home to a Saudi or Russian?

If you want to run California, or any other state, you have to move to there ,
register to vote, and run for public office.
If you want to have a say in how any state is run you have to move there and register to vote.

Good grief, JD2, was this a Californians only thread? BTW, the criticism I offered was based on a few examples in Fla. Bonds were issued to build toll roads, but local governments in budget squeeze could not keep up with the maintenance. I know one government in Charlotte County sold the bridge and causeway to a private company, and there was a fuss in Collier County about it wanting to lease a portion of trans-Florida Alligator Alley to the highest bidder--and all the bidders on the contract were foreign companies. Taxpayers who did not buy into the bond issuance will never see a benefit, while those that did get tax-exempt interest payments.
In many cases the contracts to build were run by a general contractor, and after completion and final payment, the contractor turns all ownership to the government that hired them. That government is supposed to be looking out for taxpayer interest, but in many cases they ain't.

Originally Posted by vortex

Good grief, JD2, was this a Californians only thread?

The headline article is

Desperate California Could Split Into 4 States

So I assumed it was about CA.

vortex,

I've read about this happening all over the world. It isn't always a bad thing, I don't think, but the way it is done is flat out robbery.

The public needs to be involved and they need to split up the proceeds.

The way it is being done is someone in the government makes an underhanded deal with someone and the global corporations make off with the assets of the world for a token bribe.



I think Milton Friedman explained the logic behind it best. His concept I feel is being abused. In fact I think many of his basic fundamentals were understood and taken over by those that tend to twist everything good in life and turn it to manure.

Free to Choose: A Personal Statement by economists Milton and Rose D. Friedman

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Choose-St.../dp/0156334607



I think Naomi Klein explained the evil behind the concept the way it is being carried out in many cases in the past several decades.

The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine



Both of these books were an important read for me in my life.

Milton and his wife Rose brought me a simple view and understanding of economics in regular English.

Nomi showed me the abuses of many of those basic concepts.

We have freedom of speech in this country, and unless California has seceded in the last few days, that freedom applies to any citizen of this country. And if I want to post something about NC at this site, and you want to contribute, I won't get all touchy. People here come up with good ideas I appreciate, points I can bring up to my local law makers in my eloquent letters and phone calls. And I don't care where you live or vote, your insight into another state's problems from your experience might provide a grain of wisdom that I may not have thought of.
As I have mentioned before, California's problems are more publicized but every state of the union is facing something similar to some degree. We all be in the same boat.

Thanks, StokeyBob. I haven't read Friedman in years and nothing by Naomi Klein. I better get busy.

Originally Posted by vortex

Thanks, StokeyBob. I haven't read Friedman in years and nothing by Naomi Klein. I better get busy.

I think it is good to have an understanding of Milton Friedman's concepts before reading The Shock Doctrin. She lays in heavy on the negative consequences of some of the concepts. I think the truth lies somewhere in between the two.

Basically Naomi's book focuses on the way governments take advantage of disasters with plans that have ready and waiting of the right moment. I don't think they are as patient as they could be at times.

She explains the way it is done in a basic personal level first.

I re-read Free to Choose after I finished her book.


Here is a link to a short video on the book (6min. 47 sec.). The video seems to cover the basic premise the book is found on but isn't really representative of the book as a whole. I found the actual book interesting because it gave a different background view on some of the history I've seen unfold during my lifetime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSF0e6oO_tw