Thread: Distortions rife in health care debate

Originally Posted by oldguy

quote(Do you have a link to a reliable source for data for your claim that private medical care will not be available after 5 years ?)quote

Do you have a link telling me this bill will provide equal care to all.
Come on man I'm sure your more intelligent, once the government has the grip on rationed health care no company will compete,simply common sense, how you can be against illegal immigration and not understand this health plan joke then I can only say go in peace and I wish you the best.

Show me a link that proves that private insurance companies are providing equal care to all.

Originally Posted by 4thHorseman

One does not rule out the other. You can have both systems for people to choose between.
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You will have some choices, until the government forces everyone into the single payer system. You read Frank's statement. Did you understand it? Why do you think Obama and Pelosi and Reid are so hot to trot on health care now? It is about political power. If they were serious about reducing costs they have numerous options other than this atrocious bill: allow and encourage providers to offer catastrophic coverage (what most people need); forbid free care to illegal aliens--better yet, find the scum bags who employ them and charge them for any care rendered; forbid legal aliens here under a visa program from getting free care--charge their employer, or require their employer to provide insurance, or charge the jobber that brought them in in the first place. Allow workers to take their company insurance with them until they are re-employed (provide portability options).Change the Medicare system...move it more towards the system used by federal workers (Medicare by the way is one of the main reasons for high medical costs because of bureaucratic expenses, underpaying providers who then pass it on to other providers, and providing uncompensated services or requiring private providers to provide uncompensated services}

There is no crisis. Over 90 per cent of Americans have coverage. Of the claimed 40 M plus that Obama says do not, roughly 20 per cent are illegal aliens; another 10 per cent or so have the resources to buy insurance but choose not to; about 5 per cent are between jobs (even more right now) but usually do not have more than 2-4 months before they get coverage. Less than 25 M US citizens are truly uninsured, and as noted above there are better ways to address that than with Obama administration approach.

This is a myth. Americans who DO have insurance are under insured. Their deductibles and co-pays are atstronomical. They buy these inadequate plans because they can no longer afford to be fully insured. If they ever get sick, they will be financially ruined.

Health care inusurance really does not exist in this country anymore. The plans now available are not insurance, they are a fascade. The health care insurance companies no longer fullfill their advertised function. They are no longer health insurance companies, they are health care parasites. At best this is false advertising....but actually it is fraud.

Originally Posted by redpony353

Show me a link that proves that private insurance companies are providing equal care to all.

Good point.

How much did you hear 20 yrs ago from the government concerning euthansia?

This is not an area that the government should be talking about. Period. This is an area that should remain private, between the person facing their end of life, family, pastor, doctor, and freinds. There is no room for the government in the decision making process.

This is desensitization in a subtle manner. Break the ice, then pick up the pace as time passes and no one thinks much of their government bringing up the subject.

Health care is a private decision. The government should butt out. JMHO

Dr. Mengele would be proud of this government!

Originally Posted by roundabout

How much did you hear 20 yrs ago from the government concerning euthansia?

This is not an area that the government should be talking about. Period. This is an area that should remain private, between the person facing their end of life, family, pastor, doctor, and freinds. There is no room for the government in the decision making process.

This is desensitization in a subtle manner. Break the ice, then pick up the pace as time passes and no one thinks much of their government bringing up the subject.

Health care is a private decision. The government should butt out. JMHO

Dr. Mengele would be proud of this government!

The government is not talking about euthanasia. They are giving elderly people a chance to talk and get information about end of life options. Most elderly do not want to spend their end days hooked up to a machine. They should have the right to declare what they want ahead of time. They should have access to information about the choices available and how to put their wishes into a legal format.

ASSISTED SUICIDE LAWS STATE BY STATE

THREE states have abolished the common law of crimes and do not have statutes criminalizing assisted suicide : North Carolina, Utah, Wyoming ...

www.euthanasia.com/bystate.html
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On Washington State's Ballot - Doctor-Assisted Suicide - NYTimes.comOct 31, 2008 ...

On Washington State's Ballot: Doctor-Assisted Suicide ... became the first state to allow physician-assisted suicide . . .

www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/us/31death.html - Similar
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Doctor-Assisted Suicide: A Guide to Web Sites and the Literature ...Feb 21, 2008 ... On October 27, 1997 doctor-assisted suicide became a legal medical ...

Only thirty-nine states have a statute prohibiting assisted suicide . . .
www.longwood.edu/library/SUIC.HTM

JohnDoe2 wrote,

The government is not talking about euthanasia. They are giving elderly people a chance to talk and get information about end of life options. Most elderly do not want to spend their end days hooked up to a machine. They should have the right to declare what they want ahead of time. They should have access to information about the choices available and how to put their wishes into a legal format.

People, elderly or not already have all of the options needed to make their decisions reguarding their end of days. Living wills already exist. We will all face our end of days sooner or later, I have no desire for help from any government to help, pay, or suggest counselling on HOW to die. The President of this nation has no right talking about such personal decisions. Let him plan for his own end of days and I will do for mine. I wish for none of his help or the help of his governmental minions.

Just curious, have you read any of Dr. Zeke Emanuel's writings on his visions for health care and the rationing of said care?

Originally Posted by roundabout

JohnDoe2 wrote,

The government is not talking about euthanasia. They are giving elderly people a chance to talk and get information about end of life options. Most elderly do not want to spend their end days hooked up to a machine. They should have the right to declare what they want ahead of time. They should have access to information about the choices available and how to put their wishes into a legal format.

People, elderly or not already have all of the options needed to make their decisions reguarding their end of days. Living wills already exist. We will all face our end of days sooner or later, I have no desire for help from any government to help, pay, or suggest counselling on HOW to die. The President of this nation has no right talking about such personal decisions. Let him plan for his own end of days and I will do for mine. I wish for none of his help or the help of his governmental minions.

Just curious, have you read any of Dr. Zeke Emanuel's writings on his visions for health care and the rationing of said care?

If you dont want to use it then dont. Others need to use it and they should have information that they need to make their wishes hold weight when they can no longer speak for themselves. And it is not counseling on how to die. It is counseling on how to put your wishes into a legal format. Right now many elderly have to have a lawyer do this for them. Now it will be covered so that everyone has access to it.

redpony353 wrote,

Others need to use it

Seems to me those needs are available in the private sector. Since when is it the governments responsibility to provide for the plans of one's death? Is the government responsible for our birth? Is the government responsible for the unwanted, thus responsible or obligated to provide for the abortions of those unwanted? If the government is responsible or obligated to providing for our death wishes, are they also responsible or obligated to help us to choose the manner in which we will die? Where will we draw the line? Or, will we allow the government to draw the lines for us as individuals, and thus reduce ourselves to being wards of the state?

Is this health care reform in its current form constitutional?

Now it will be covered so that everyone has access to it.

Is it the governments responsibility, thus by extension our responsibility to pay for someone else's plan for their death? Euthanasia is legal in two(?) states, are we also responsible for assisting in their suicide?

What are we responsible for as individuals?

Again, how large do we wish for our government to be?

Originally Posted by roundabout

redpony353 wrote,

Others need to use it

Seems to me those needs are available in the private sector. Since when is it the governments responsibility to provide for the plans of one's death? Is the government responsible for our birth? Is the government responsible for the unwanted, thus responsible or obligated to provide for the abortions of those unwanted? If the government is responsible or obligated to providing for our death wishes, are they also responsible or obligated to help us to choose the manner in which we will die? Where will we draw the line? Or, will we allow the government to draw the lines for us as individuals, and thus reduce ourselves to being wards of the state?

Is this health care reform in its current form constitutional?

[quote:sgqig31d]Now it will be covered so that everyone has access to it.

Is it the governments responsibility, thus by extension our responsibility to pay for someone else's plan for their death? Euthanasia is legal in two(?) states, are we also responsible for assisting in their suicide?

What are we responsible for as individuals?

Again, how large do we wish for our government to be?[/quote:sgqig31d]

Some people need this help. Dont be so friggn selfish...fgs. They just need information on how to fill out forms. Its not like they need a total body overhaul or something. Just to fill out the forms correctly.