Thread: DRUG DECRIMINALIZATION YES OR NO

Originally Posted by cynthiatweedle

Originally Posted by Judy

Yes, I support decriminalization and legalization with regulation and taxation under the FairTax, with a portion of the FairTaxes drug users pay being used for better education about the risk and consequences of drug use and free rehabilitation for anyone who wants or needs it.

I would want regulation of a legal industry to dictate the make and mix at the growing, production, distribution and sale at the retail level. I would want every aspect of this trade controlled 100% by US citizens and US controlled corporations or businesses. I would want the retail stores to be licensed, monitored entities in convenient and safe but not prominent, high traffic or high visibility locations. I would not allow them to advertise their products on television or the radio at all in any medium, network, cable or satellite. They can take out a 1 line add in the yellow pages, no display ads, under the drugs or pharmaceutical category. Drug users will find them in the phone book if they're interested or there can be a website on the internet where they can find the locations for their area that they can only access if they are of legal age to purchase.

There will no imported product outside US states and territories. None. If it's going to be sold here, it's going to be grown and processed under US jurisdiction only by licensed US citizens and US businesses only. Period. Non-negotiable.

There will regulations on the quality to ensure safety and the quantity to control use to small reasonable personal consumption amounts and additional regulations to limit the sales to adults only, no sales to minors, all under a civil code, not a criminal code. If you violate the regulations, you'll pay fines and depending on the type and number of violations, you'll lose your license and your business. If you violate the regulations and someone is injured by it, then you're also subject to the same product liability as any other vendor.

There are experts on these drugs from medical professionals to former DEA agents who know far more about what the regulations should be than I do, and they are the ones who should work as a team to help write the regulations. I don't think we should have a lot of regulations, just important ones that a) ensure it's all American from the farms to the business ownership to distributors, carriers, handlers and workers b) ensure the products are grown, manufactured and sold responsibly c) ensure the amount sold to anyone at any 1 time is for their own small personal consumption use only in private not in public and d) using the FairTax to ensure FairTaxes are collected on all the retail transactions like any other product and a portion used to pay for better education about the risk and consequences of drug use and provide free rehabilitation and medical assistance on demand without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it. Then enforce the regulations, and stop worrying about it.

The results will be the end of a foreign controlled black market, the end of gangs and street dealers, the end of cartel and gang threatened neighborhoods and the end of cops chasing drug users and dope dealers and all the violence and crime associated with this foreign cartel owned and controlled illegal drug trade. Of course, if someone hijacks a truck of legal drugs or breaks into a store or factory, then of course these would be robberies and treated like every other robbery.

I would also want every person presently in jail for non-violent drug offenses, released immediately from prison and all drug offenses purged from all criminal records, so these people can start fresh and anew and try to restore their lives that I think were wrongfully impaired by a set of laws that ultimately infringed upon their liberty and civil rights as Americans.

I've never used drugs, never had any interest them, they never appealed to me in any way shape or form and I don't really understand why it appeals to other people, but the fact is it does and no one has the right to deny them that in the way that we've done. The War on Drugs may have been a well-intentioned program with a noble goal, but it overlooked the higher principle we hold dear and essential as Americans, and that is the liberty to pursue your own happiness your own way so long as you don't harm another person or damage their property in the process. You can not claim to have a free nation of free people when you are locking people up, stealing their liberty, ruining their lives, invading their privacy, or killing them, because they choose for whatever reason to smoke pot, snort cocaine or shoot heroin. It's their right and their choice. We can educate, we can discourage, but we already know that a certain portion of our population will do anything to get these drugs and have for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Thus, our duty as a society is to do the best we can to make sure that in their pursuit of something they want, we are not causing them greater harm than the drugs they want to use. So our job is to make it safe for them to buy it, to contain the distribution to designated appropriate areas where they deal with decent honest responsible people of their own country, provide the products with the proper cuts and mixes in small quantities and provide them printed warning information at the time of every sale. Driving under the influence of drugs if not already covered by traffic laws should be added to the regulations. The rest is up to the individual, their family and friends.

To me, this is the best we can do because in addition to making this industry safe and crime free for the user, we've also stop the primary reason our politicians want to keep the borders open, we've stopped the link between illegal immigration and the illegal drug trade, we've stopped the drain of our money supply out of the country, we've stopped the flow of illegal aliens to run these illegal drugs for their foreign cartels into the country, we've stopped the promotion of drugs to children, we've stopped the forcing of children in many neighborhoods to sell the drugs to other children under threat of harm to themselves or their family by illegal drug dealers, we've stopped the drug gangs, we've stopped the black market, we've created legal jobs in legal farming enterprises, processing operations, distribution and retail sales stores, we've created a revenue stream for our own people and our own governments while stopping an enormous futile harmful enforcement cost, we've asked drug users to pay the Fairtaxes that will educate themselves and the general public on the risk and consequences of using these products as well as covering the cost of regulating the trade they participate in and the rehabilitation and medical costs associated with it.

That's a win-win-win-win any day in my view. I believe overtime, much of the intrigue of drugs will actually dissipate and for future generations there will be less interest and curiosity in them, and hope the "coolness" or "adventure" or whatever it is will slowly fade. It will never disappear, we know that, but we'll have done the best we can do with it while still calling ourselves Americans living in a free nation of free people.

To parents, I say this. No one is protecting your children today. So if you don't want your children to use drugs, then you know where they are, who they're with and what they're doing at all times while they live under your roof. If your children have locks on their bedroom doors, remove them. You check your children's drawers, closets, bed, backpacks, purses, cars if they have them, every few days. It will be extremely difficult for them to get these drugs once they're decriminalized, legalized and regulated, but they can still sneak it from a friends parent's stash so you still need to check. If they close their door you feel free to walk in after a quick knock or without one any time you want and do so often. If they go to the basement, you check on them often. If they go to a friend's house, you often show up unannounced and never let them go to a friend's house that you don't know where it is and you haven't met their parents. If your chlidren wail to you about their privacy, you raise them to know they have no privacy at all while they live under your roof. Society can't protect your children from anything or anyone, you must do that and do it all.

Here is a great website which has a lot of good information about ending the War on Drugs. It's called LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

www.leap.cc

Here is a great video from their website, there are many more, but this one I liked very much because of the facts it provides and the people involved in LEAP:

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28

Here's a link to the FairTax, which is to me an essential part of making the legalization program work:

www.fairtax.org

I like this Judy!!! Good job explaining that.

Originally Posted by cynthiatweedle

I want to see the price of the drugs come down low enough to make a black market on drugs a waste of effort.

The main goal is to ruin the drug trade by making drugs available so cheap it puts them out of business.

Do you agree or not??

Yes! Absolutely! The reason the cost of these drugs is so high today is because it's a black market smuggling operation run by cartels, who kill each other over market share, turf and territory who have to buy cops, politicians, cut their take 20 different ways, and still make billions. Americans don't realize how huge this market is. It's a $300 billion + a year industry in the United States. $240 billion of it comes across the Southern Border which is 70% of the marijuana and 30% of the cocaine consumed in the United States. Another $60 billion + comes in through our ports, in small boats, on private airplanes and driven in from Canada. Most of the crystal meth is made within the states, is a very dangerous toxic drug to produce for the workers involved with it and highly explosive which poses extreme fire hazards for the neighborhoods where these illegal operations exist which is primarily residential neighborhoods.

When these products are legally mass produced in licensed factories in industrial locations, the cost is so much lower than what foreign cartels and illegal operators can provide it at, they're out of business the day the first stores open. There will also be plenty of stores to provide more than ample competition to keep the prices low while still providing an incentive for people to grow it, produce it and sell it responsibly.

Originally Posted by Judy

When these products are legally mass produced in licensed factories in industrial locations, the cost is so much lower than what foreign cartels and illegal operators can provide it at, they're out of business the day the first stores open.

Hurray!!!!

Originally Posted by cynthiatweedle

Originally Posted by Judy

When these products are legally mass produced in licensed factories in industrial locations, the cost is so much lower than what foreign cartels and illegal operators can provide it at, they're out of business the day the first stores open.

Hurray!!!!

YES!!

[quote=Judy]

Originally Posted by sk1951

Originally Posted by redpony353

Originally Posted by sk1951

Originally Posted by redpony353

Originally Posted by sk1951":3qrwpzk5]Federal Decriminalization Bill Introduced -- Bill Would End Federal Authority to Arrest Adults for Pot Possession.

H.R. 5843:
[url="http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7581

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7581[/url]

Where it is now
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-5843

Right. But who would still be selling the pot? The gangsters. Great that pot users wont be sent to prison....but the problem is bigger than that. Decriminalizing personal use means that pot users will get a ticket and they have to pay the ticket. Why should they have to do that? The sellers are the ones making beaucoup bucks selling it. And in the meantime they kill people too. If you could just buy it at ...say....Walgreens, the whole environment around it would change. It would be taxed and regulated. And no more gangsters selling drugs. It takes away their life blood....money. Without drug money they would lose much of the power they have.

I think as I read that bill that there were no penalties.

But to be honest...the beaucoup bucks are being made by Uncle and all the other corrupt social government entities around the world...in the drug war fueled money and seizures. The game is to rich and powerful for those in law and order to give it up. Military war will never end for the same reasons. From front to back the illegal game is unbelievably costly for some making other very rich, famous, powerful and influential. Many powerful men have been created by it. Over half of all the policing forces are in drug enforcement, prosecution and incarceration. A staggering amount. The drugs themselves pail in financial comparison. This is a big stumbling block with legalization. Take a weed that is worth nothing and create all this...this...illegal industry... It is sick and evil...demonic in conseption. All this pain and suffering for what...to make a few rich and powerful.

You will NEVER hear this money situation talked about. It will always be covert with propaganda. Protecting the kids and society and all that…

This is all the more reason to legalize it outright. I have no doubt that you are correct that some corrupt government agencies are involved. But in the end it will be legalized.

I am not talking about corruption...though yes that also. I am talking about the entire system front to back. The corruption lies in the "illegal" formatting. The illegal law industry and the addiction industry. These industries prays on individuals rights to live the way they want to. It strips people of life, liberty, dignity and in the end all their constitutional rights making them subservient slaves to the system by taking away their civil rights through felony conviction or enslaving them if addicted. Even after prison they live a long hard life of paying restitutions, years of parole and reform schooling. Low job wages or no job at all because of the felony classification.

Correct. It's horrible what we've done under a criminal code, outrageous, the worst thing since slavery in my view. It must be stopped.

I think where you and redpony353 are having a difference is you want to decriminalize the user but as yet haven't agreed to legalization and regulation for the sellers. redpony353 and I want to not only decriminalize for the user but legalize for the sellers so we provide a safe legal US made supply for the users without any criminal code involved. Just fines, loss of license or business for the sellers, nothing for the users, who are finally free from their misery.[/quote:3qrwpzk5]

Semantics. Seems a small thing. But it is not. For one...to convince society that this is a good program for children the message of legal simply will not fly. It will always be defeated. A legalized answer is asking the same of society that Raza is asking you to support legalization of illegal immigrants (change immigrants to drugs and I think you will better understand the point I am attempting to make).

Legalized sends the wrong message to users, would be users and the moral majority. As Obama and his Czar just said..."legalization is not in our vocabulary..." Best to listen to that very carefully if you wish to make any headway at all with this.

I will keep trying to make my point in as many different ways as I can to help you understand the huge differerences between legalize and decriminalize. From a law point of view they may very well be closely related in some ways. But from a social message stand point they are worlds apart.

I do not want them legalized and I have a bit of a problem with the sound of cheap and widely dispersed with every corner a dispensary. I do not want glorification or a message of condoning in any form surrounding social use of drugs.

We are talking about very dangerous addictive drugs. No one knows how venerable they are to addiction until they are in the grasp of it…the denial and the downward spiral that ensues. They simply are not a toy to be played with or glorified. We are talking human life here.

Originally Posted by sk1951

I do not want them legalized and I have a bit of a problem with the sound of cheap and widely dispersed with every corner a dispensary. I do not want glorification or a message of condoning in any form surrounding social use of drugs.

We are talking about very dangerous addictive drugs. No one knows how venerable they are to addiction until they are in the grasp of it…the denial and the downward spiral that ensues. They simply are not a toy to be played with or glorified. We are talking human life here.

Well then, do you mean another concept or just different language. For example "regulated", "authorized", "managed consumption", "managed distribution", "managed resources", etc. ????

Judy wrote:

To parents, I say this. No one is protecting your children today. So if you don't want your children to use drugs, then you know where they are, who they're with and what they're doing at all times while they live under your roof. If your children have locks on their bedroom doors, remove them. You check your childrens drawers, closets, bed, backpacks, purses, cars if they have them, every few days. It will be extremely difficult for them to get these drugs once they're decriminalized, legalized and regulated, but they can still sneak it from a friends parent's stash so you still need to check. If they close their door you feel free to walk in after a quick knock or without one any time you want and do so often. If they go to the basement, you check on them often. If they go to a friends house, you often show up unannouced and never let them go to a friends house that you don't know where it is and you haven't met their parents. If your chlidren wail to you about their privacy, you raise them to know they have no privacy at all while they live under your roof. Society can't protect your children from anything or anyone, you must do that and do it all

This iis another good point. Kids will still be able to get drugs if they put their mind to it, but it wont be so easy. There will be no seedy pusher outside the elementary school pushing drugs. The drugs will be at the liquor store or at walgreens....or some other legit business who will not sell it to minors. So legalization would actually make it harder for kids to get, not easier.

Originally Posted by redpony353

Judy wrote:

To parents, I say this. No one is protecting your children today. So if you don't want your children to use drugs, then you know where they are, who they're with and what they're doing at all times while they live under your roof. If your children have locks on their bedroom doors, remove them. You check your childrens drawers, closets, bed, backpacks, purses, cars if they have them, every few days. It will be extremely difficult for them to get these drugs once they're decriminalized, legalized and regulated, but they can still sneak it from a friends parent's stash so you still need to check. If they close their door you feel free to walk in after a quick knock or without one any time you want and do so often. If they go to the basement, you check on them often. If they go to a friends house, you often show up unannouced and never let them go to a friends house that you don't know where it is and you haven't met their parents. If your chlidren wail to you about their privacy, you raise them to know they have no privacy at all while they live under your roof. Society can't protect your children from anything or anyone, you must do that and do it all

This iis another good point. Kids will still be able to get drugs if they put their mind to it, but it wont be so easy. There will be no seedy pusher outside the elementary school pushing drugs. The drugs will be at the liquor store or at walgreens....or some other legit business who will not sell it to minors. So legalization would actually make it harder for kids to get, not easier.

Exactly. Legalization will make it much more difficult for children to get drugs which is why parents should study it and consider the advantages and improvements of it. Plus if they do get their hands on it and a few will, the mixes will be right reducing considerably the number of accidental over-doses, parents will have immediate access to free rehabilitation, counseling and medical care for their children and teenagers as will all families for anyone who needs or wants it.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by redpony353

Judy wrote:

To parents, I say this. No one is protecting your children today. So if you don't want your children to use drugs, then you know where they are, who they're with and what they're doing at all times while they live under your roof. If your children have locks on their bedroom doors, remove them. You check your childrens drawers, closets, bed, backpacks, purses, cars if they have them, every few days. It will be extremely difficult for them to get these drugs once they're decriminalized, legalized and regulated, but they can still sneak it from a friends parent's stash so you still need to check. If they close their door you feel free to walk in after a quick knock or without one any time you want and do so often. If they go to the basement, you check on them often. If they go to a friends house, you often show up unannouced and never let them go to a friends house that you don't know where it is and you haven't met their parents. If your chlidren wail to you about their privacy, you raise them to know they have no privacy at all while they live under your roof. Society can't protect your children from anything or anyone, you must do that and do it all

This iis another good point. Kids will still be able to get drugs if they put their mind to it, but it wont be so easy. There will be no seedy pusher outside the elementary school pushing drugs. The drugs will be at the liquor store or at walgreens....or some other legit business who will not sell it to minors. So legalization would actually make it harder for kids to get, not easier.

Exactly. Legalization will make it much more difficult for children to get drugs which is why parents should study it and consider the advantages and improvements of it. Plus if they do get their hands on it and a few will, the mixes will be right reducing considerably the number of accidental over-doses, parents will have immediate access to free rehabilitation, counseling and medical care for their children and teenagers as will all families for anyone who needs or wants it.

GREAT POINTS. ALL PARENTS SHOULD READ THIS.

Originally Posted by cynthiatweedle

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by redpony353

Judy wrote:

To parents, I say this. No one is protecting your children today. So if you don't want your children to use drugs, then you know where they are, who they're with and what they're doing at all times while they live under your roof. If your children have locks on their bedroom doors, remove them. You check your childrens drawers, closets, bed, backpacks, purses, cars if they have them, every few days. It will be extremely difficult for them to get these drugs once they're decriminalized, legalized and regulated, but they can still sneak it from a friends parent's stash so you still need to check. If they close their door you feel free to walk in after a quick knock or without one any time you want and do so often. If they go to the basement, you check on them often. If they go to a friends house, you often show up unannouced and never let them go to a friends house that you don't know where it is and you haven't met their parents. If your chlidren wail to you about their privacy, you raise them to know they have no privacy at all while they live under your roof. Society can't protect your children from anything or anyone, you must do that and do it all

This iis another good point. Kids will still be able to get drugs if they put their mind to it, but it wont be so easy. There will be no seedy pusher outside the elementary school pushing drugs. The drugs will be at the liquor store or at walgreens....or some other legit business who will not sell it to minors. So legalization would actually make it harder for kids to get, not easier.

Exactly. Legalization will make it much more difficult for children to get drugs which is why parents should study it and consider the advantages and improvements of it. Plus if they do get their hands on it and a few will, the mixes will be right reducing considerably the number of accidental over-doses, parents will have immediate access to free rehabilitation, counseling and medical care for their children and teenagers as will all families for anyone who needs or wants it.

GREAT POINTS. ALL PARENTS SHOULD READ THIS.

Thank you Cynthia! Yes, all parents need to think about this legalization/regulation plan that's tied to the FairTax because a portion of the FairTaxes paid only by drug users who purchase the products will not only pay for the costof regulation, they will pay for a far better education program that better informs children, teenagers and adults so they know the risk and consequences before they use, it will also pay for all rehabilitation, counseling and medical care associated with drug use, it will be free, on-demand, without stigma and completely private and confidential, the same as any medical care would be.

Businesses, government and health insurance companies should study this as well, because it takes the monkey off their back for the cost of drug use and puts in the hands of drug users who pay the FairTaxes on the transactions that leads to the problem in the first place, a portion of which is then used to fund the regulation, education and rehabilitation programs, which are now funded by government, employers and health insurance companies.