Thread: Iraq - Turks - Kurds

[quote=JZ][quote=CrocketsGhost]

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by "CrocketsGhost":qp0ht2p5

Originally Posted by "JZ":qp0ht2p5

Hillarys running mate would have to be John Walsh or that guy from Dateline MSNBC on "To Catch a Preditor" show. To protect the interns from Billary.

It doesn’t take a genius to say, “I want to Stop the Iraq War.” We’ll need a genius to explain to the World ,why the U.S. created such a mess in the first place. And explain why there will be mass murders and ethic cleansing and territory take in Iraq after we pull out. America has reduced Iraq to rubble and when we pull out the dogs will eat the survivors.

The genius will be needed to explain to the world, why we created the genocide of Iraq then deserted her. Mr. Bush has led our country down the wrong path, so his big business buddies could make money.

Now, no amount of money can cure the problem and the U.S. is being deserted by other countries that once were her friends. We have lost a respectable rating with many of our friends.

Plato once said, “Wars will stop when the last soldier is laid to rest.” We are no longer in The Iraq war we’re in a war with the whole Middle East. American soldiers are dying and we’re not even stealing their oil. Hillary is no genius she is another “Good Ole Boy”! Or how I like to think of her, she's just another "Anti Christ".

Genocide? Please, fella. Have you even educated yourself as to the meaning of the word? What we have in Iraq is Arabs killing other Arabs (occasionally with the help of some Persians). What we're seeing is closer to suicide, and the US is trying to stop it.

Maybe I should have made myself a little clearer what we have now is organized mass murders and war crimes orchestrated by the U.S. The genocide and ethic cleansing will happen AFTER we pull out of Iraq.

Evidence?

Iran is entering into the war and has been funding the insurgents for 2 years, our government is just admitting it. The Hezbollah Terrorist Group in Lebanon is funded by Syria and Iran and is IN control of the Lebanese government. Turkey is supporting the Curds in south Iraq and Jordan want a Nuclear weapon too.

Since we entered the war the U.S. government claims the Iraqi death rate is 34,000 but independent studies show the numbers are as high as 650,000 Iraqis killed since the being of the war. There are about 1.6 million Iraqis displaced living in tents and 1.7 million Iraqis refugees that have fled to other countries.

Bush sold us a pack of lies to start the war. So far 3,086 American soldiers have died in the war, 3,000 soldiers are double amputees, 23,279 soldiers were wounded and 10,343 of those soldiers were wounded so seriously they couldn’t return to duty within in 3 days.

Again, evidence? That's quite a rant, but it does little to promote the idea of genocide. I think you've allowed yourself to get a little overhyped on this thing.

Your "facts" seem hopelessly muddled. For example, you have the Turks backing the "Curds" (it's Kurds with a "K"), when in fact the Turks are opposing the creation of a Kurdish state because they don't want their own Kurdish population getting any nationalistic ideas. It is the Turks who have impeded many of the requests and demands of the Kurds in Iraq.

See, if you have an understanding of the geopolitics of the region, you comprehend why the US has been unable to stop Iran and Syria from promoting the insurgency, but since it appears that you drank the Koolaid from some conspiracy site it's going to be impractical to try to actually discuss the facts of the situation.[/quote:qp0ht2p5]

You should take your own advice. With time you'll eat your own words.[/quote:qp0ht2p5]
Big talk, but would you care to attempt to back the claims you made with something of substance? Aren't you even going to try to back up your errant claim that the Turks are "backing the Curds (sic)"?

I have devoted an extraordinarily large percentage of my life to keeping myself educated. Maintaining a broad knowledge base requires many personal sacrifices, but it also confers the privilege of being able call BS when one sees it.

CrocketsGhost,

It’s all speculation even your remarks. Why, because it hasn’t happened yet. I am not here to talk about the war so please don’t be offended if I end this conversation here, on my part anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... r10_2.html

"Turkey continues to press Washington to confront a guerrilla army of separatist Turkish Kurds based in Iraq's north and to protect Turkish-speaking populations in Tall Afar and Kirkuk. And more than 18 months later, the humiliating July 4, 2003, arrest of Turkish army special forces by American soldiers in northern Iraq remains a raw topic."

$$$

This is an article written in 2002. (Since then the Kurd refugees have fled to Turkey in 2006.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

At the same time, any participation by Turkish troops in Iraq would be problematic. One often-repeated scenario is that in the event of a U.S.-led war, Iraqi Kurdish troops could move south, out of their zone of control, to seize Kirkuk. The area and its oil income would be added to the Kurdish autonomous zone, allowing 300,000 displaced Kurds to return there. But, because many Turks feel Kirkuk belongs to their country, the Turkish government might send troops there first, as a preemptive move.

$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan29.html

Ethnic Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens all claim a right to govern Kirkuk, Iraq this oil-rich city, and many Arabs and Turkmens believe that if the Kurds prevail, the city will be subsumed in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq that has been outside the control of the Iraqi central government since 1991.

Originally Posted by PatrioticSandra

I agree with bring the Soldiers Home too Cassie But my reason is to REPRODUCE<REPRODUCE and even more REPRODUTION !!!!!!! We NEED AMERICANS NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just wrote a message to BlueJersey in the Tom Tancredo e - mail thread that we don't need to troops overseas, especially not in Japan or Korean Peninsula. We need them on our borders. I believe in fortress America, but we'll get attacked by the world when we do that, while there are so many other nations that do the same. Japan has one of the strictest immigration laws and they enforce them, we have soft immigration rules and don't even enforce them. What's wrong with us ? Why can't Bush enforce our laws while the Japansese Prime Minister can.

Originally Posted by JZ

CrocketsGhost,

It’s all speculation even your remarks. Why, because it hasn’t happened yet. I am not here to talk about the war so please don’t be offended if I end this conversation here, on my part anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... r10_2.html

"Turkey continues to press Washington to confront a guerrilla army of separatist Turkish Kurds based in Iraq's north and to protect Turkish-speaking populations in Tall Afar and Kirkuk. And more than 18 months later, the humiliating July 4, 2003, arrest of Turkish army special forces by American soldiers in northern Iraq remains a raw topic."

$$$

This is an article written in 2002. (Since then the Kurd refugees have fled to Turkey in 2006.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

At the same time, any participation by Turkish troops in Iraq would be problematic. One often-repeated scenario is that in the event of a U.S.-led war, Iraqi Kurdish troops could move south, out of their zone of control, to seize Kirkuk. The area and its oil income would be added to the Kurdish autonomous zone, allowing 300,000 displaced Kurds to return there. But, because many Turks feel Kirkuk belongs to their country, the Turkish government might send troops there first, as a preemptive move.

$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan29.html

Ethnic Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens all claim a right to govern Kirkuk, Iraq this oil-rich city, and many Arabs and Turkmens believe that if the Kurds prevail, the city will be subsumed in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq that has been outside the control of the Iraqi central government since 1991.

JZ, your articles demonstrate the errancy of your claim that the Kurds are backed by the Turks. Again, the Turks were the primary impediment to simply separating the northern portion of Iraq into a separate Kurdish homeland.

2ndamendsis Wrote:

If the USA does not have VICTORY........expect this 'war' to culminate on our own soil. Our citizens can no longer remain in denial. HISTORY is the great teacher. All one has to do is dig.

I`m surprised it`s not already here.
With out the full knowlege of what`s going on, I`m neither for or against pulling out.
I do feel that pulling out could make us more vounerable for another and more serious 9/11.
But that`s my opinion.

Originally Posted by mkfarnam

2ndamendsis Wrote:

If the USA does not have VICTORY........expect this 'war' to culminate on our own soil. Our citizens can no longer remain in denial. HISTORY is the great teacher. All one has to do is dig.

I`m surprised it`s not already here.
With out the full knowlege of what`s going on, I`m neither for or against pulling out.
I do feel that pulling out could make us more vounerable for another and more serious 9/11.
But that`s my opinion.

MKFARNUM
It's a FACT. You know it and I know it and the islamic maniacs know it.
Pulling out of any conflict without VICTORY is but a self inflicted fatal wound and has always come back to bite us on our collective ass. But this one? This one's the most important one we've encountered in our lifetimes.
Sidenote: the islamic maniacs were assisting the nazis way back there in WWII. Nothing's changed except the terrain.

KURDS/TURKS/TURKMEN
Turkey's history with the Kurds is a given. They've been in a quiet war with each other since Turkey became Turkey. The Turks have tried to keep the Kurds within Turkey as 2nd class citizens. The Kurds have fought against it for decades. The Kurds don't like the Turks and visa versa.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

CrocketsGhost,

It’s all speculation even your remarks. Why, because it hasn’t happened yet. I am not here to talk about the war so please don’t be offended if I end this conversation here, on my part anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... r10_2.html

"Turkey continues to press Washington to confront a guerrilla army of separatist Turkish Kurds based in Iraq's north and to protect Turkish-speaking populations in Tall Afar and Kirkuk. And more than 18 months later, the humiliating July 4, 2003, arrest of Turkish army special forces by American soldiers in northern Iraq remains a raw topic."

$$$

This is an article written in 2002. (Since then the Kurd refugees have fled to Turkey in 2006.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

At the same time, any participation by Turkish troops in Iraq would be problematic. One often-repeated scenario is that in the event of a U.S.-led war, Iraqi Kurdish troops could move south, out of their zone of control, to seize Kirkuk. The area and its oil income would be added to the Kurdish autonomous zone, allowing 300,000 displaced Kurds to return there. But, because many Turks feel Kirkuk belongs to their country, the Turkish government might send troops there first, as a preemptive move.

$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan29.html

Ethnic Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens all claim a right to govern Kirkuk, Iraq this oil-rich city, and many Arabs and Turkmens believe that if the Kurds prevail, the city will be subsumed in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq that has been outside the control of the Iraqi central government since 1991.

JZ, your articles demonstrate the errancy of your claim that the Kurds are backed by the Turks. Again, the Turks were the primary impediment to simply separating the northern portion of Iraq into a separate Kurdish homeland.

This is what I call support. If Turkey should enter into the Iraq War it will be problematic.

http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/4 ... urds.shtml

The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own country. Their total population is around 26 million--with about half living in Turkey

$$$

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0129/p06s01-wosc.html

450,000 Iraqi Kurdish refugees flooded Turkey in 1991. Another Gulf war may spur a second exodus.

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

CrocketsGhost,

It’s all speculation even your remarks. Why, because it hasn’t happened yet. I am not here to talk about the war so please don’t be offended if I end this conversation here, on my part anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... r10_2.html

"Turkey continues to press Washington to confront a guerrilla army of separatist Turkish Kurds based in Iraq's north and to protect Turkish-speaking populations in Tall Afar and Kirkuk. And more than 18 months later, the humiliating July 4, 2003, arrest of Turkish army special forces by American soldiers in northern Iraq remains a raw topic."

$$$

This is an article written in 2002. (Since then the Kurd refugees have fled to Turkey in 2006.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

At the same time, any participation by Turkish troops in Iraq would be problematic. One often-repeated scenario is that in the event of a U.S.-led war, Iraqi Kurdish troops could move south, out of their zone of control, to seize Kirkuk. The area and its oil income would be added to the Kurdish autonomous zone, allowing 300,000 displaced Kurds to return there. But, because many Turks feel Kirkuk belongs to their country, the Turkish government might send troops there first, as a preemptive move.

$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan29.html

Ethnic Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens all claim a right to govern Kirkuk, Iraq this oil-rich city, and many Arabs and Turkmens believe that if the Kurds prevail, the city will be subsumed in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq that has been outside the control of the Iraqi central government since 1991.

JZ, your articles demonstrate the errancy of your claim that the Kurds are backed by the Turks. Again, the Turks were the primary impediment to simply separating the northern portion of Iraq into a separate Kurdish homeland.

This is what I call support. If Turkey should enter into the Iraq War it will be problematic.

http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/4 ... urds.shtml

The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own country. Their total population is around 26 million--with about half living in Turkey

$$$

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0129/p06s01-wosc.html

450,000 Iraqi Kurdish refugees flooded Turkey in 1991. Another Gulf war may spur a second exodus.

OMG!!! Your source is Socialist Worker Online?

Dude, you said that Turkey would back the Iraqi Kurds. THAT was your claim. All this backpeddling with articles from radical Leftist propaganda sites is not going to correct your error. See the post above from 2ndamendsis.

2ndamendsis Wrote:

Code:

Turkey's history with the Kurds is a given. They've been in a quiet war with each other since Kurds  Turkey became Turkey. The Turks have tried to keep the within Turkey as 2nd class citizens. The Kurds have fought against it for decades. The Kurds don't like the Turks and visa versa.

That sounds like what`s going on here on our "Homefront".

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

CrocketsGhost,

It’s all speculation even your remarks. Why, because it hasn’t happened yet. I am not here to talk about the war so please don’t be offended if I end this conversation here, on my part anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... r10_2.html

"Turkey continues to press Washington to confront a guerrilla army of separatist Turkish Kurds based in Iraq's north and to protect Turkish-speaking populations in Tall Afar and Kirkuk. And more than 18 months later, the humiliating July 4, 2003, arrest of Turkish army special forces by American soldiers in northern Iraq remains a raw topic."

$$$

This is an article written in 2002. (Since then the Kurd refugees have fled to Turkey in 2006.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

At the same time, any participation by Turkish troops in Iraq would be problematic. One often-repeated scenario is that in the event of a U.S.-led war, Iraqi Kurdish troops could move south, out of their zone of control, to seize Kirkuk. The area and its oil income would be added to the Kurdish autonomous zone, allowing 300,000 displaced Kurds to return there. But, because many Turks feel Kirkuk belongs to their country, the Turkish government might send troops there first, as a preemptive move.

$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan29.html

Ethnic Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens all claim a right to govern Kirkuk, Iraq this oil-rich city, and many Arabs and Turkmens believe that if the Kurds prevail, the city will be subsumed in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq that has been outside the control of the Iraqi central government since 1991.

JZ, your articles demonstrate the errancy of your claim that the Kurds are backed by the Turks. Again, the Turks were the primary impediment to simply separating the northern portion of Iraq into a separate Kurdish homeland.

This is what I call support. If Turkey should enter into the Iraq War it will be problematic.

http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/4 ... urds.shtml

The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own country. Their total population is around 26 million--with about half living in Turkey

$$$

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0129/p06s01-wosc.html

450,000 Iraqi Kurdish refugees flooded Turkey in 1991. Another Gulf war may spur a second exodus.

OMG!!! Your source is Socialist Worker Online?

Dude, you said that Turkey would back the Iraqi Kurds. THAT was your claim. All this backpeddling with articles from radical Leftist propaganda sites is not going to correct your error. See the post above from 2ndamendsis.

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.