Thread: Iraq - Turks - Kurds

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

CrocketsGhost,

It’s all speculation even your remarks. Why, because it hasn’t happened yet. I am not here to talk about the war so please don’t be offended if I end this conversation here, on my part anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... r10_2.html

"Turkey continues to press Washington to confront a guerrilla army of separatist Turkish Kurds based in Iraq's north and to protect Turkish-speaking populations in Tall Afar and Kirkuk. And more than 18 months later, the humiliating July 4, 2003, arrest of Turkish army special forces by American soldiers in northern Iraq remains a raw topic."

$$$

This is an article written in 2002. (Since then the Kurd refugees have fled to Turkey in 2006.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

At the same time, any participation by Turkish troops in Iraq would be problematic. One often-repeated scenario is that in the event of a U.S.-led war, Iraqi Kurdish troops could move south, out of their zone of control, to seize Kirkuk. The area and its oil income would be added to the Kurdish autonomous zone, allowing 300,000 displaced Kurds to return there. But, because many Turks feel Kirkuk belongs to their country, the Turkish government might send troops there first, as a preemptive move.

$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan29.html

Ethnic Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens all claim a right to govern Kirkuk, Iraq this oil-rich city, and many Arabs and Turkmens believe that if the Kurds prevail, the city will be subsumed in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq that has been outside the control of the Iraqi central government since 1991.

JZ, your articles demonstrate the errancy of your claim that the Kurds are backed by the Turks. Again, the Turks were the primary impediment to simply separating the northern portion of Iraq into a separate Kurdish homeland.

This is what I call support. If Turkey should enter into the Iraq War it will be problematic.

http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/4 ... urds.shtml

The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own country. Their total population is around 26 million--with about half living in Turkey

$$$

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0129/p06s01-wosc.html

450,000 Iraqi Kurdish refugees flooded Turkey in 1991. Another Gulf war may spur a second exodus.

OMG!!! Your source is Socialist Worker Online?

Dude, you said that Turkey would back the Iraqi Kurds. THAT was your claim. All this backpeddling with articles from radical Leftist propaganda sites is not going to correct your error. See the post above from 2ndamendsis.

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.

C'mon, guy. Stop while you still have some semblance of credibility.

That sounds like what`s going on here on our "Homefront".

I was thinking this as I was reading these last several posts. "Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis, ethnic Kurds, ethnic this and that..."

This is what happens when people have an allegiance to their particular "ethnic group" instead of the country as a whole. How far away from this type of ethnic strife is the US as illegals who have no loyalty towards the US but to another country continue to stream in and as we fail to insist that immigrants assimilate? And all this going on while we try to fight Islamists hell bent on creating their caliphate.

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.

HUH?

ARe you actually being serious?

Nah, no one could possibly be serious about that, lol.

OK!
I'm splitting this and putting it into the OTHER TOPICS forum.
Enjoy.

The oilfields in the south of Iraq? Do you mean the ones Iran and/or Saudi Arabia will be fighting over if we pull out to early? Those oilfields?

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.

HUH?

ARe you actually being serious?

Nah, no one could possibly be serious about that, lol.

OK!
I'm splitting this and putting it into the OTHER TOPICS forum.
Enjoy.

I'll give it to you guys that I made a mistake when I used the word South. Turkey is to the north of Iraq.

I am saying that Turkey is providing shelter to the Iraqi Kurds whether you like it or not, therefore supporting the Iraqi Kurds.

If America pulls out of Iraq and leaves them to their own defense.

I think that Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan will rip Iraq apart like a pack of wild dogs.

Unless America plans on a 30 year war to keep the dogs at bay. Therefore kinder gardeners in America will be in the Iraq war.

War is what the Middle East does best and has for centuries.

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.

HUH?

ARe you actually being serious?

Nah, no one could possibly be serious about that, lol.

OK!
I'm splitting this and putting it into the OTHER TOPICS forum.
Enjoy.

I'll give it to you guys that I made a mistake when I used the word South. Turkey is to the north of Iraq.

I am saying that Turkey is providing shelter to the Iraqi Kurds whether you like it or not, therefore supporting the Iraqi Kurds.

If America pulls out of Iraq and leaves them to their own defense.

I think that Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan will rip Iraq apart like a pack of wild dogs.

Unless America plans on a 30 year war to keep the dogs at bay. Therefore kinder gardeners in America will be in the Iraq war.

War is what the Middle East does best and has for centuries.

No, Turkey is not sheltering the Kurds. You need to get that straight.

Now, you may have a point about Iraq being ripped to shreds if the US bugs out, which is why we're pretty much stuck there for the moment. That's also why I have always said that Iraq should have been parted out. Splitting the country into at least three entities to accommodate the Shi'a, Sunni and Kurds was seriously considered, but the two principal problems were the fact that the oil wealth is concentrated in what would have been the Shi'ite zone and the fact that our Turkish allies were adamant that they did not want to see a Kurdish homeland.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.

HUH?

ARe you actually being serious?

Nah, no one could possibly be serious about that, lol.

OK!
I'm splitting this and putting it into the OTHER TOPICS forum.
Enjoy.

I'll give it to you guys that I made a mistake when I used the word South. Turkey is to the north of Iraq.

I am saying that Turkey is providing shelter to the Iraqi Kurds whether you like it or not, therefore supporting the Iraqi Kurds.

If America pulls out of Iraq and leaves them to their own defense.

I think that Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan will rip Iraq apart like a pack of wild dogs.

Unless America plans on a 30 year war to keep the dogs at bay. Therefore kinder gardeners in America will be in the Iraq war.

War is what the Middle East does best and has for centuries.

No, Turkey is not sheltering the Kurds. You need to get that straight.

Now, you may have a point about Iraq being ripped to shreds if the US bugs out, which is why we're pretty much stuck there for the moment. That's also why I have always said that Iraq should have been parted out. Splitting the country into at least three entities to accommodate the Shi'a, Sunni and Kurds was seriously considered, but the two principal problems were the fact that the oil wealth is concentrated in what would have been the Shi'ite zone and the fact that our Turkish allies were adamant that they did not want to see a Kurdish homeland.

If the Iraqi Kurds are in Turkey and Turkish government isn’t executing them or deporting them. They're providing a safe haven! I didn’t say Comfortable I said, safe.

What's the difference between that and America providing a safe haven for illegal aliens? Nothing in my book, therefore the American government is supporting the illegal aliens and the Turkish government is supporting Iraqi Kurds.

If not, you provide some evidence that masses of Iraqi Kurds are not in Turkey. The Turkish government is as mean as snakes and if they wanted someone to be gone they’d be dead, no questions asked.

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by JZ

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

We shall see, if and when the Turks invade Iraq to seize the oil fields in the south. If the Turks are supporting the Iraqi Kurds in their country now. I call that support in some definition of the word. They’ll gladly use the Kurds as an excuse to steal territory and oil fields. No matter if they see Iraqi Kurds as second class citzens.

HUH?

ARe you actually being serious?

Nah, no one could possibly be serious about that, lol.

OK!
I'm splitting this and putting it into the OTHER TOPICS forum.
Enjoy.

I'll give it to you guys that I made a mistake when I used the word South. Turkey is to the north of Iraq.

I am saying that Turkey is providing shelter to the Iraqi Kurds whether you like it or not, therefore supporting the Iraqi Kurds.

If America pulls out of Iraq and leaves them to their own defense.

I think that Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan will rip Iraq apart like a pack of wild dogs.

Unless America plans on a 30 year war to keep the dogs at bay. Therefore kinder gardeners in America will be in the Iraq war.

War is what the Middle East does best and has for centuries.

No, Turkey is not sheltering the Kurds. You need to get that straight.

Now, you may have a point about Iraq being ripped to shreds if the US bugs out, which is why we're pretty much stuck there for the moment. That's also why I have always said that Iraq should have been parted out. Splitting the country into at least three entities to accommodate the Shi'a, Sunni and Kurds was seriously considered, but the two principal problems were the fact that the oil wealth is concentrated in what would have been the Shi'ite zone and the fact that our Turkish allies were adamant that they did not want to see a Kurdish homeland.

If the Iraqi Kurds are in Turkey and Turkish government isn’t executing them or deporting them. They're providing a safe haven! I didn’t say Comfortable I said, safe.

What's the difference between that and America providing a safe haven for illegal aliens? Nothing in my book, therefore the American government is supporting the illegal aliens and the Turkish government is supporting Iraqi Kurds.

If not, you provide some evidence that masses of Iraqi Kurds are not in Turkey. The Turkish government is as mean as snakes and if they wanted someone to be gone they’d be dead, no questions asked.

You want me to prove a negative? Do yourself a favor and stop embarrassing yourself. Stop trying to cover for your misstatements and go do some reading on the history of the Kurds along with some recent articles on the relations between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurds.

You could start by reading this excerpt from a Washington Post article from 1999:

During the early 20th century, Kurds began to consider the concept of nationalism, a notion introduced by the British amid the division of traditional Kurdistan among neighboring countries. The 1920 Treaty of Sevres, which created the modern states of Iraq, Syria and Kuwait, was to have included the possibility of a Kurdish state in the region. However, it was never implemented. After the overthrow of the Turkish monarchy by Kemal Ataturk, Turkey, Iran and Iraq each agreed not to recognize an independent Kurdish state.

The Kurds received especially harsh treatment at the hands of the Turkish government, which tried to deprive them of Kurdish identity by designating them "Mountain Turks," outlawing their language and forbidding them to wear traditional Kurdish costumes in the cities. The government also encouraged the migration of Kurds to the cities to dilute the population in the uplands. Turkey continues its policy of not recognizing the Kurds as a minority group.

In Iraq, Kurds have faced similar repression. After the Kurds supported Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, Saddam Hussein retaliated, razing villages and attacking peasants with chemical weapons. The Kurds rebelled again after the Persian Gulf War only to be crushed again by Iraqi troops. About 2 million fled to Iran; 5 million currently live in Iraq. The United States has tried to create a safe haven for the Kurds within Iraq by imposing a "no-fly" zone north of the 36th parallel.

And here's a more recent Washington Times article that illuminates the tension between the Turkish government and the Kurds:

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060418 ... -7436r.htm

Turkey never has and probably never will be made to honor the Kurds.
They fight with them on a regular basis.

They're not protected such as the ILLEGALS are protected here.

The Kurdish / Turk problem is well known and we've managed, difficult as it is {love to know just how much we give Turkey for it} to keep Turkey from committing genocide. We've been walking a tightrope with this situation.

One reason Turkey may be holding back is to look good for the EU invitation patrol. I don't why they need to try so hard. Europe is so afraid of the Muslims.