Thread: JFK assassination plot uncovered in Chicago?

Originally Posted by BearFlagRepublic

Check out the History Channel right NOW......They are doing a special on the Kennedy assassination. I will probably be asleep by the time they air it, but they are going to show Dale Meyer's computer recreation of the Zapruder Film, which plots the trajectory based on the film and the autopsy evidence......which confirms the "magic" bullet theory. Check it out, awesome work. If you miss it, I can link to Meyer's site.

Will the computer explain how a bullet fired from a rifle and passed through human bone and flesh look like it just fell out of a box?
I don't think so!
Also with Ford's admitting they moved the wound up tells me there was a second shooter down lower and from what I have seen the head shot came from the right front meaning there was a third as well. Remember there was a piece of skull on the trunk of the Limo.
I've butchered many large animals in my time and have always shot them in the head, never once did their head fly back towards me.

Originally Posted by MountainDog

Will the computer explain how a bullet fired from a rifle and passed through human bone and flesh look like it just fell out of a box?
I don't think so!

No the computer recreation did not go into the condition of the missile. But don't be fooled by conspiracy theorist propaganda. The bullet WAS NOT in "pristine" condition. It was flattened at its base with the lead core protruding out -- what would be expected from the bullet's path. After going through the soft tissue of JFK's neck, deflecting off of Conally's rib, and then going through his wrist. Remember that the velocity of the missile is greatly reduced after traversing each limb, which reduces the damage to the missile. Lab recreation tests performed by Army Wounds and Ballistics specialist Dr. John Lattimer show that the bullet (CE 399) received damage that one would expect given the damage that it caused and its velocity.

Also with Ford's admitting they moved the wound up tells me there was a second shooter down lower and from what I have seen the head shot came from the right front meaning there was a third as well. Remember there was a piece of skull on the trunk of the Limo.

Mistakes were made by the autopsists who were rushed and drew diagrams from memory. But the proof is in the autopsy photos which show wounds consistent with only shots from the rear. This was unanimously agreed to by the top forensic pathologists for the House Select Committee in 1978.

I've butchered many large animals in my time and have always shot them in the head, never once did their head fly back towards me.

JFK's rearward reaction could have been from what Nobel Prize winning physicist Luis Alvarez call the "jet effect" which is that the blood and brain matter exiting out the right/front part of JFK's head thrust his head back. Or it could have been from a neuromuscular reaction caused when the bullet traversed Kenned's brain. Dr. Lattimer also did lab tests on mock human skulls which recreated the "jet effect." Take a look at the Zapruder Film again. If you look closely it is clear that the side of JFK's head opens up, but the back remains clean. There was no rear exit wound. When the Zapruder Film is slowed down and enhanced, it is clear that JFK's head moves forward several inches (when the bullet entered) before it thrusts back (when it exited).

Originally Posted by BearFlagRepublic

As conntoversial as this sounds.......I believe that Oswald killed Kennedy, and there was no other shooter. I have read the entire Warren Commission Report -- 800+ pages. I agree the Warren Report is flawed, but mainly because it incompletely investigated the possibility that Cuba was behind Oswald. Johnson wanted to avoid WWIII and RFK wanted to save his brothers image, together they worked to cover-up JFK's role in the assassination attempts on Castro and invasion plans for Cuba.

Cuba had the motivation to kill Kennedy-and it definitely had the resources and access to murder him-but I don't believe that necessarily means it was Castro. Cuba has tried to commit acts of terrorism on American soil ever since Fidel and his buddy "Che" took over that tropical gulag so I wouldn't put anything past that regime.

That being said, smoke doesn't always mean fire.

Mehmet Ali Agca may have been doing the Soviets' bidding when he tried to kill Pope John Paul II, but that doesn't mean that they were behind him logistically. He was a radical Turkish Islamist who had more than enough motivation and willingness to murder Karol Wojtyla. The same holds true for Oswald. He was a hard core Communist and a psychologically unstable lunatic looking to both be immortal-through his actions-and follow through on his convictions. That was more than enough impetus for him to kill Kennedy without assistance from the Cubans, who did want to kill JFK-along with every other living American.

Originally Posted by Shapka

Cuba had the motivation to kill Kennedy-and it definitely had the resources and access to murder him-but I don't believe that necessarily means it was Castro. Cuba has tried to commit acts of terrorism on American soil ever since Fidel and his buddy "Che" took over that tropical gulag so I wouldn't put anything past that regime.

That being said, smoke doesn't always mean fire.

Mehmet Ali Agca may have been doing the Soviets' bidding when he tried to kill Pope John Paul II, but that doesn't mean that they were behind him logistically. He was a radical Turkish Islamist who had more than enough motivation and willingness to murder Karol Wojtyla. The same holds true for Oswald. He was a hard core Communist and a psychologically unstable lunatic looking to both be immortal-through his actions-and follow through on his convictions. That was more than enough impetus for him to kill Kennedy without assistance from the Cubans, who did want to kill JFK-along with every other living American.

I agree completely. I don't necessarily believe that Cuba did it, just that the Warren Commission covered up investigation leading that way because Johnson feared the possibility so much that he made sure it was not adequately investigated. Here are some things to chew on:

--Oswald had a history of political assassination attempts: He tried to shoot anti-Castro General Edwin Walker 1 year before the assassination, and wanted to take a gun to "take a look" when Nixon visited Dallas (only stopped by his wife Marina).

--Oswald was privy to Kennedy's assassination attempts on Castro and invasion plans for Cuba through his infiltration of anti-Castro organizations in New Orleans.

--Oswald was a committed Castroite, and a member of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee, which had contacts to Havana.

--Oswald was in communist intelligence hot-bed Mexico City at the Cuban Consulate 2 months before the assassination. Some reports say that he took money there and said he would kill Kennedy. The Cuban Consulate was a place where assassination had been struck. The CIA confirmed that Oswald had an affair with consulate employee and possible Castro agent Sylvia Duran while in Mexico City.

--Right after Oswald's trip to Mexico City, Castro made public threats on Kennedy's life to a Brazilian reporter. Also, in Brazil at the same time Rulando Cuebela -- double agent for Castro -- arrived in Brazil with CIA orders to kill Fidel with a poisonous pen. He almost certainly informed Fidel of the plot.

In the final analysis, Johnson, the FBI, the CIA, and the Warren Commission intentionally did not follow these leads sufficiently in order to avoid WWIII. The Warren Commission did not even nail down Oswald's motive, which you seem to agree was almost assuredly to save Castro from Kennedy. The Warren Commission's cover-ups have led to decades of conspiracy theory that has led people up the completely wrong tree. The Oliver Stone types have this thing completely upside-down and backwords.

Like a lot of things in this country - we don't have a clue what went on - but to believe that one man and one man alone planned and shot the President stretches the imagination.

To assume that Jack Ruby came into the basement of the Dallas police station and shot a prisoner - the best known, the most important prisoner ever to be in that station - without some Texas lawman killing Ruby is just beyond swallowing. Lawmen weren't PC back then, they weren't reticent about using those weapons back then.

These days we are all familiar with 'use of deadly force', and fear of lawsuits, etc. It was a very different time. I feel like if the killing of Oswald hadn't been planned and orchestrated, some lawman would have beat Ruby to the draw - so to speak - or afterward anyway.

"He didn't want Jackie to have to come back for a trail'. I mean that's just the silliest thing I have ever heart.

Originally Posted by BearFlagRepublic

Originally Posted by MountainDog

Will the computer explain how a bullet fired from a rifle and passed through human bone and flesh look like it just fell out of a box?
I don't think so!

No the computer recreation did not go into the condition of the missile. But don't be fooled by conspiracy theorist propaganda. The bullet WAS NOT in "pristine" condition. It was flattened at its base with the lead core protruding out -- what would be expected from the bullet's path. After going through the soft tissue of JFK's neck, deflecting off of Conally's rib, and then going through his wrist. Remember that the velocity of the missile is greatly reduced after traversing each limb, which reduces the damage to the missile. Lab recreation tests performed by Army Wounds and Ballistics specialist Dr. John Lattimer show that the bullet (CE 399) received damage that one would expect given the damage that it caused and its velocity.

Also with Ford's admitting they moved the wound up tells me there was a second shooter down lower and from what I have seen the head shot came from the right front meaning there was a third as well. Remember there was a piece of skull on the trunk of the Limo.

Mistakes were made by the autopsists who were rushed and drew diagrams from memory. But the proof is in the autopsy photos which show wounds consistent with only shots from the rear. This was unanimously agreed to by the top forensic pathologists for the House Select Committee in 1978.
[quote:1cqpxgej]I've butchered many large animals in my time and have always shot them in the head, never once did their head fly back towards me.

JFK's rearward reaction could have been from what Nobel Prize winning physicist Luis Alvarez call the "jet effect" which is that the blood and brain matter exiting out the right/front part of JFK's head thrust his head back. Or it could have been from a neuromuscular reaction caused when the bullet traversed Kenned's brain. Dr. Lattimer also did lab tests on mock human skulls which recreated the "jet effect." Take a look at the Zapruder Film again. If you look closely it is clear that the side of JFK's head opens up, but the back remains clean. There was no rear exit wound. When the Zapruder Film is slowed down and enhanced, it is clear that JFK's head moves forward several inches (when the bullet entered) before it thrusts back (when it exited).[/quote:1cqpxgej]

A very excellent reply Bear, I have never seen a pic of the bullet and have only heard it was pristine. However if they have the bullet a simple ballistic test would prove it and I have never heard of one being done only a lot of hype on how it could have traveled.
I have heard the theories from people like you mention and even read a report about a guy would could shoot a watermelon and make it jump forward. I'm no expert but I have studied the effects of trauma and to me a bullet traveling at 14,000 feet per second is going to move the object it hits backwards. What they are trying to explain is when something strikes your head your skull moves away from it pushing your brain against the skull then bounces back against the opposite side causing the head to move back, this only works if the skull stays intact though.
I do have the Zapruder film and will watch it again with your thoughts in mind.
MD