Thread: NYTimes-More Children Victims of Poverty Returning to School

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

"gemini282"

It's the schools fault for not demanding the ssn be checked and a stop be put to educating anybody who can hop a border because look how OUR children are suffering.

Is it the schools or higher up like the Board of Education and NCLB


[quote:167m5qbs]
Don't you think that 443 million from Los Angeles spent on IA welfare could have saved those jobs lost in the school district?

YES I do!!!!
My friend in CA is a 5th grade teacher and she says that85% are Mexican. She can't ask if the are legal.[/quote:167m5qbs]

Right now my child's school is so over crowded, the first day of school on a fence were these "lists". I went up to see thinking it was where my kids should go to class like they used to have up when I was in school on the 1st day. There were hundreds and hundreds of names then I look closer and it's for "temporary" classes until the school could find a place. I was appalled! The school district is to blame for this because they just want the money each kid brings, it doesn't matter if they are illegal or not to them but look at how many Americans in the education field have lost jobs during this budget crisis, how many teachers pay out of pocket for expenses the school refuses to cover. Where exactly is all this money going??? And they are going to build another school right next door to my son's current school so they can fill that one up too, all the principal could say was HAVE MORE KIDS, HAVE MORE KIDS TO FILL THE SCHOOL. Obviously there are too many kids in district already so bttom line it's money for them and a big screw you to the kids and teachers that have to suffer. Plus the school neighbors a newer housing development, I'd hate to see the property taxes they have to pay.

WorriedAmerican

My friend in CA is a 5th grade teacher and she says that 85% are Mexican. She can't ask if the are legal.

See below what my girlfriend said about her CA school and the one in Mexico she went to first.
It's crazier than I thought!
I totally agree with gemini282, it's all about money and NOT education now.

gemini282

Right now my child's school is so over crowded, the first day of school on a fence were these "lists". I went up to see thinking it was where my kids should go to class like they used to have up when I was in school on the 1st day. There were hundreds and hundreds of names then I look closer and it's for "temporary" classes until the school could find a place. I was appalled! The school district is to blame for this because they just want the money each kid brings, it doesn't matter if they are illegal or not to them but look at how many Americans in the education field have lost jobs during this budget crisis, how many teachers pay out of pocket for expenses the school refuses to cover. Where exactly is all this money going??? And they are going to build another school right next door to my son's current school so they can fill that one up too, all the principal could say was HAVE MORE KIDS, HAVE MORE KIDS TO FILL THE SCHOOL. Obviously there are too many kids in district already so bttom line it's money for them and a big screw you to the kids and teachers that have to suffer. Plus the school neighbors a newer housing development, I'd hate to see the property taxes they have to pay.

What My Friend in CA Said:
When the Prop 227 passed on Immigration status and Home Language schools are not permitted to inquire about their citizenship status. The only ones in Pasadena allowed to know if the child has a ssn, is in the office. The only things that are required to register students in our district, that I am aware of, is the immunization records and a utility bill in their family name to indicate residence. I doubt that this will ever change, as the state looks at this as every child occupying a seat and enrolled in that school, regardless of status of citizenship or residence, presents the ADA (average daily attendance). The ADA collected and documented this year pays the salaries of teachers next year.

Of course my take on this is a little biased, and it is not the first time that we have educated illegals. Or may I add, I doubt it will be the last, considering my real life experience. Please read on.

Education of Mexican students was one of the reasons that I was in Mexico to teach. That school was originally set up to continue the education for the scientist families who were studying the "mosca" the fruit fly that is so devastating to the crops in the nation. Many families were sent to the area of Chiapas to study this fly by the USDA. The USDA then had to provide a school for the children of the scientists, so a school for the USA citizens was set up. It was to continue as long as there were USA citizens there. These families wanted to have their students receive the curriculum and standards taught in the US. As the families grew or moved back, the Mexican families infiltrated the vacancies. As this happened, soon there were no USA families or students in the school, but the USDA continued to operate and fund the school for the Mexican children. This continued for several years, in a governmental red tape glitch, go figure. When the USDA did finally discover the problem, they pulled out. The school was then picked up by a family who had children already enrolled there, and had several other educational private school interests and investments. The school was built, 7-9 USA teachers with knowledge of USA curriculum were then hired, including myself, and the rest of that turbulant year is, as they say history. You can check out the school by doing a websearch: Colegio Americano Samuel Leon de Brindis, Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas. I have recently visited that site, but don't remember the addy. I was surprised how much the school facility has changed. When I was there, it was questionable if it would be able to continue due mainly for the expense of tuition. The fact that we, the teachers, all came back to the states because of the way our contracts had been breached. But that is another story for another time. Right now I need to get ready to brave the trenches of education here in the California no budget yet public school systems.

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

WorriedAmerican

My friend in CA is a 5th grade teacher and she says that 85% are Mexican. She can't ask if the are legal.

See below what my girlfriend said about her CA school and the one in Mexico she went to first.
It's crazier than I thought!
I totally agree with gemini282, it's all about money and NOT education now.

gemini282
[quote:2momah37]Right now my child's school is so over crowded, the first day of school on a fence were these "lists". I went up to see thinking it was where my kids should go to class like they used to have up when I was in school on the 1st day. There were hundreds and hundreds of names then I look closer and it's for "temporary" classes until the school could find a place. I was appalled! The school district is to blame for this because they just want the money each kid brings, it doesn't matter if they are illegal or not to them but look at how many Americans in the education field have lost jobs during this budget crisis, how many teachers pay out of pocket for expenses the school refuses to cover. Where exactly is all this money going??? And they are going to build another school right next door to my son's current school so they can fill that one up too, all the principal could say was HAVE MORE KIDS, HAVE MORE KIDS TO FILL THE SCHOOL. Obviously there are too many kids in district already so bttom line it's money for them and a big screw you to the kids and teachers that have to suffer. Plus the school neighbors a newer housing development, I'd hate to see the property taxes they have to pay.

What My Friend in CA Said:
When the Prop 227 passed on Immigration status and Home Language schools are not permitted to inquire about their citizenship status. The only ones in Pasadena allowed to know if the child has a ssn, is in the office. The only things that are required to register students in our district, that I am aware of, is the immunization records and a utility bill in their family name to indicate residence. I doubt that this will ever change, as the state looks at this as every child occupying a seat and enrolled in that school, regardless of status of citizenship or residence, presents the ADA (average daily attendance). The ADA collected and documented this year pays the salaries of teachers next year.

Of course my take on this is a little biased, and it is not the first time that we have educated illegals. Or may I add, I doubt it will be the last, considering my real life experience. Please read on.

Education of Mexican students was one of the reasons that I was in Mexico to teach. That school was originally set up to continue the education for the scientist families who were studying the "mosca" the fruit fly that is so devastating to the crops in the nation. Many families were sent to the area of Chiapas to study this fly by the USDA. The USDA then had to provide a school for the children of the scientists, so a school for the USA citizens was set up. It was to continue as long as there were USA citizens there. These families wanted to have their students receive the curriculum and standards taught in the US. As the families grew or moved back, the Mexican families infiltrated the vacancies. As this happened, soon there were no USA families or students in the school, but the USDA continued to operate and fund the school for the Mexican children. This continued for several years, in a governmental red tape glitch, go figure. When the USDA did finally discover the problem, they pulled out. The school was then picked up by a family who had children already enrolled there, and had several other educational private school interests and investments. The school was built, 7-9 USA teachers with knowledge of USA curriculum were then hired, including myself, and the rest of that turbulant year is, as they say history. You can check out the school by doing a websearch: Colegio Americano Samuel Leon de Brindis, Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas. I have recently visited that site, but don't remember the addy. I was surprised how much the school facility has changed. When I was there, it was questionable if it would be able to continue due mainly for the expense of tuition. The fact that we, the teachers, all came back to the states because of the way our contracts had been breached. But that is another story for another time. Right now I need to get ready to brave the trenches of education here in the California no budget yet public school systems. [/quote:2momah37]



See I don't understand when it became OKAY to educate other countries kids for FREE when those funds should only be going to our kids. It's bad enough we have 10% of Mexico's population. I think it's appalling that we are being forced to endure this at the expense of our kids education, everywhere now is SPanish this and spanish that. If they want their kids here they should be speaking and taught in english not have our kids feel unwelcomed in their own schools paid for by their parents hard work. It's just ungratefulness at it's worst. I know about the whole immunization record, but those are easy to obtain and about the utility bill there is a giant LOOPHOLE as there was a line on the registration form allowing you to put someone's name on it who has "possession" of your child, I forget how they worded it but all that name has to do is match up with the utility bill of a friend or family member here legally which is how they get away with it knowing there is no money to support enforcement of the residency rules. When a school has to make classrooms in the auditorium and there is more than 20 kids per class you would think the district would be concerned, but in reality bottom line is how much money they can get which is illogical considering over crowding means more teachers to hire, more books, more free lunches, school activities, school maintenance etc and at the end of the day is it really worth it??? I know my son's former kinder teacher said it best when she said if they took all the kids out of the San Ysidro school district who crossed from Mexico everyday that would be the equivalent of 1 whole school, remember how I said the San Ysidro school district is having to build a new school because of the over crowding?

See I don't understand when it became OKAY to educate other countries kids for FREE when those funds should only be going to our kids. It's bad enough we have 10% of Mexico's population. I think it's appalling that we are being forced to endure this at the expense of our kids education, everywhere now is SPanish this and spanish that. If they want their kids here they should be speaking and taught in english not have our kids feel unwelcomed in their own schools paid for by their parents hard work. It's just ungratefulness at it's worst.

Who lets this happen??? Surely NOT the US people.

I know about the whole immunization record, but those are easy to obtain and about the utility bill there is a giant LOOPHOLE as there was a line on the registration form allowing you to put someone's name on it who has "possession" of your child, I forget how they worded it but all that name has to do is match up with the utility bill of a friend or family member here legally which is how they get away with it knowing there is no money to support enforcement of the residency rules.

It's totally bogus! The Senate, The Congress and The PRESIDENT, knows it, I BET!

When a school has to make classrooms in the auditorium and there is more than 20 kids per class you would think the district would be concerned, but in reality bottom line is how much money they can get which is illogical considering over crowding means more teachers to hire, more books, more free lunches, school activities, school maintenance etc and at the end of the day is it really worth it???

YUP
Follow the money ...

I know my son's former kinder teacher said it best when she said if they took all the kids out of the San Ysidro school district who crossed from Mexico everyday that would be the equivalent of 1 whole school, remember how I said the San Ysidro school district is having to build a new school because of the over crowding?

I might be wrong, but I blame CA for letting it happen and then it spread to other states like RABIES does!! Please tell me why I should not put the blame there. Really, I want to put the blame where it rightfully goes.

I see no one to help save us from it getting worse, UNLESS we have a depression and they move thru attrition.We can't count on the SAVE Act with this President, the next President and this CONGRESS!! Everyone needs to go! Let's start over.

The entire school system across this country has become a mess when trying to be PC to accomodate non-English speakers. Subjects like English get warped (teaching "powergraphs" which MUST be 10 sentences long but if a kid delivers the idea in five or six sentences, they get a bad grade), kids not having access to computer labs because of overcrowding and computer printed papers are all the teacher will accept (and some teachers insisted on nothing produced on a dot-matrix printer.)

I remember that when it started with my oldest. It wasn't enough to write it, type it, it had to be done on a computer. There wasn't enough computers in the classes, not everyone could afford one, so we went to the library and that was limited to only 15 minutes of usage.

"Powergraphs" is a new term for me. I went through the "writing to read" to where if you spelled it correctly, it could be wrong. Kat, not Cat. Nife, not Knife. etc. And then they wondered why the kids couldn't spell.

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

See I don't understand when it became OKAY to educate other countries kids for FREE when those funds should only be going to our kids. It's bad enough we have 10% of Mexico's population. I think it's appalling that we are being forced to endure this at the expense of our kids education, everywhere now is SPanish this and spanish that. If they want their kids here they should be speaking and taught in english not have our kids feel unwelcomed in their own schools paid for by their parents hard work. It's just ungratefulness at it's worst.

Who lets this happen??? Surely NOT the US people.

[quote:1ndkkzt9]I know about the whole immunization record, but those are easy to obtain and about the utility bill there is a giant LOOPHOLE as there was a line on the registration form allowing you to put someone's name on it who has "possession" of your child, I forget how they worded it but all that name has to do is match up with the utility bill of a friend or family member here legally which is how they get away with it knowing there is no money to support enforcement of the residency rules.

It's totally bogus! The Senate, The Congress and The PRESIDENT, knows it, I BET!

When a school has to make classrooms in the auditorium and there is more than 20 kids per class you would think the district would be concerned, but in reality bottom line is how much money they can get which is illogical considering over crowding means more teachers to hire, more books, more free lunches, school activities, school maintenance etc and at the end of the day is it really worth it???

YUP
Follow the money ...

I know my son's former kinder teacher said it best when she said if they took all the kids out of the San Ysidro school district who crossed from Mexico everyday that would be the equivalent of 1 whole school, remember how I said the San Ysidro school district is having to build a new school because of the over crowding?

I might be wrong, but I blame CA for letting it happen and then it spread to other states like RABIES does!! Please tell me why I should not put the blame there. Really, I want to put the blame where it rightfully goes.

I see no one to help save us from it getting worse, UNLESS we have a depression and they move thru attrition.We can't count on the SAVE Act with this President, the next President and this CONGRESS!! Everyone needs to go! Let's start over. [/quote:1ndkkzt9]


I don't know who to solely blame but I first and foremost blame those politicians who passed the laws allowing for residents even if they were IA to attend public school. Now if they had said private school at their own expense then so be it, they're paying for it. But it's allowed for our schools to become over crowded, the dumbing down of educational requirements, forcing teachers out who are more than qualified only because of them not being fluent in spanish yet those not fluent in english are more than welcomed to teach our kids. People were suckered in to believing that allowing anyone in our schools would lower crime but they had no idea that if these people do not assimiliate an education is worthless to them and that is why we have a 50% high school drop out rate for hispanics.

All I know is California is in a budget crisis, AGAIN. And will be as long as they crazies are running the asylum. I loved it when Bilbray was elected to congress, if he can get elected in an IA loving state then there is hope. I agree we need to start over and get anchor babies out of office because they only have "their people's" interest at heart.

I see the recession and being on the verge of a depression as an a sort of god send waking more people up to this cause, putting Americans first and others last. If there is no money, no jobs, no vacationing or visiting hotels, no money for eating out etc where will these IA go for work? Back home because the welfare line won't take them, the churches won't have the money to help if there are no donations. Just like IA is a trickle down effect so too is a bad economy and the first to go during the depression were those from Mexico, as they only have loyalty to where they can get their next free meal and they follow the money. Americans stick it out and work through tough times, IA don't know what tough is.

I don't know who to solely blame but I first and foremost blame those politicians who passed the laws allowing for residents even if they were IA to attend public school.

I'm blaming NCLB, and those politicians that voted for it.
I wonder if they read it first?

I loved it when Bilbray was elected to congress, if he can get elected in an IA loving state then there is hope.

It gave me about 1 minute of hope...

I see the recession and being on the verge of a depression as an a sort of god send waking more people up to this cause, putting Americans first and others last. If there is no money, no jobs, no vacationing or visiting hotels, no money for eating out etc where will these IA go for work? Back home because the welfare line won't take them, the churches won't have the money to help if there are no donations.

It is a positive to think of when we are all out on the streets or have 15 relatives living with us!

The first to go during the depression were those from Mexico.

REALLY?

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

I don't know who to solely blame but I first and foremost blame those politicians who passed the laws allowing for residents even if they were IA to attend public school.

I'm blaming NCLB, and those politicians that voted for it.
I wonder if they read it first?



[quote:2rfzqo65] I loved it when Bilbray was elected to congress, if he can get elected in an IA loving state then there is hope.

It gave me about 1 minute of hope...

I see the recession and being on the verge of a depression as an a sort of god send waking more people up to this cause, putting Americans first and others last. If there is no money, no jobs, no vacationing or visiting hotels, no money for eating out etc where will these IA go for work? Back home because the welfare line won't take them, the churches won't have the money to help if there are no donations.

It is a positive to think of when we are all out on the streets or have 15 relatives living with us!

The first to go during the depression were those from Mexico.

REALLY?[/quote:2rfzqo65]


Do I want 15 relatives living with me? No I don't. But if it's going to happen it's going to happen and I might as well find the silver lining. I'm also not happy with status quo either, our children are the ones who are and will continue to suffer. Mexicans want get it both ways, dual citizenship offers them all sorts of benefits we could only dream of but are denied. And when I say Mexicans I mean people from Mexico. During the depression I know of countless friends who say their families returned back to Mexico once the jobs dried up and they crossed back over when times were good kind of like right now the only difference was how much welfare were they getting for their anchors during the depression? I see them as flip floppers and their allegiance is to money not what the USA stands for. They only believe in their "rights to free load and whine when they don't get their way". I don't what the answer is, all I know is there are laws that need enforcing and it hasn't been happening for the past couple of decades and until the majority of citizens unite against this then they will see their country turn to a 3rd world cess pool ridden with crime, gangs, more poverty. And if it meant living with 15 family members so that my children can get a good education in english and where they weren't outcasts in their own country it would be a small price to pay.

crazybird wrote

I remember that when it started with my oldest. It wasn't enough to write it, type it, it had to be done on a computer. There wasn't enough computers in the classes, not everyone could afford one, so we went to the library and that was limited to only 15 minutes of usage.

"Powergraphs" is a new term for me. I went through the "writing to read" to where if you spelled it correctly, it could be wrong. Kat, not Cat. Nife, not Knife. etc. And then they wondered why the kids couldn't spell.

Ah, what happened to the days of phonetics, root verbs to be conjucated and math without a calculator?
I have no idea what will make these administrators (local and national)realize is their prime responsibility is educating American children in their culture and language, rather than accepting any illegals with no questions asked.
Kids don't need every electronic gizmo on the planet, which many parents can't afford, to solve simple math problems, etc. These kids need plain basic knowledge about the technology if not the innards of computer programming.
Teachers in Fla. have told me often they find themselves teaching only those things so the kids could pass the state-wide achievement tests administered in 3rd and 10th grades. Too many students don't pass and the school itself got a bad grade, meaning they would be losing students who had vouchers to go to any school of their choice. I.e., lost revenue for the school that had a bad grade.
The entire school system is becoming an embarassment to this country.