Thread: Raise Social Security retirement to 70, means-test benefits

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

If they raise wages everyone will have to pay more for everything they buy.

So what? At least there will be money circulating in the economy and more people will actually pay some tax (besides sales tax). If wages are raised and illegals deported then more people would have decent jobs too. It is a combination of things that have brought us down.

Too many people (too much legal immigration)=housing prices too high and now no one can afford to buy a house anymore.

Too many people (too much legal immigration AND work visas)=not enough jobs and low wages and substandard living AND no disposable income AND billions of dollars being sent out of the country to circulate in another economy.

Illegals flooding the job market AND housing market=even lower wages and higher housing prices AND BILLIONS of dollars being sent out of the country to circulate in another economy.

What good does it do to have a SS system if people never get to retire, or the monthly amount they get is not even enough for the basics of food, shelter, and lights?

What good does it do to keep prices down if no one has a job and even if they do they have no disposable income? Let the prices go up fgs. So what? And one more thing...those cheap goods dont last long. They are cheap and you have to keep buying them over and over. It is actually more expensive in the long run. We need well made products that last. We need American made quality products that we dont have to buy over and over. Cheap goods are not cheaper.....they are just cheap.

Raise wages and prices and the people living on a fixed income loose buying power.

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Raise wages and prices and the people living on a fixed income loose buying power.

Give em a cost of living increase. A BIG ONE! Geez, why is the government so cheap? These people worked THEIR WHOLE LIFE AND PAID TAXES. Give them some effin cash fgs. USA has money for all kinds of foreign aid ...even to people who hate us. But when it comes to seniors all the sudden they get cheap. What is that? We can take care of the entire globe PLUS THE BANKSTERS...but we leave the elderly to rot in poverty.

Unless there is real tangible growth, from production, any monies above that growth added to the system only dilutes the value of fiat money already in circulation.

When it comes to a fiat currency, if it were wine, any more added above true production would be water added to your wine, it becomes diluted and the value of the buzz has become lessened. So if you can get to the bottle of wine before the dilution, you will gain a greater buzz, and,.....be happier.

Thus inflation wears and tears at such a farcical system as Social Security. If the monies that went into Social Security were honest(?) and tied to government debt bonds, then the SS system would keep up with or surpass the rate of inflation. Inflation is stealing of wealth from the poor and a transfer to the bankers. This will not end well despite the Hollywood mentality that paper money based on debt buys dreams.

Originally Posted by roundabout

Unless there is real tangible growth, from production, any monies above that growth added to the system only dilutes the value of fiat money already in circulation.

When it comes to a fiat currency, if it were wine, any more added above true production would be water added to your wine, it becomes diluted and the value of the buzz has become lessened. So if you can get to the bottle of wine before the dilution, you will gain a greater buzz, and,.....be happier.

Thus inflation wears and tears at such a farcical system as Social Security. If the monies that went into Social Security were honest(?) and tied to government debt bonds, then the SS system would keep up with or surpass the rate of inflation. Inflation is stealing of wealth from the poor and a transfer to the bankers. This will not end well despite the Hollywood mentality that paper money based on debt buys dreams.

Yes absolutely there has to be REAL growth. We have to start producing what we use right here in our own country. I did not mean to say that we should just add money because money is only paper. We need REAL jobs and REAL money. BUT....we need to bring up the minimum wage. There are too many people who are so poor that they dont pay tax. Everyone who works full time should be earning enough to pay tax. If they are working full time and still too poor to pay tax then they are not being paid enough. We should not be buying ANYTHING from another country that we can produce here. And we should not be inviting workers from other countries when we have plenty of workers here.

Real growth stimulates competition, competition for labor as well. Thus competitive wages and an increase in the ability of those in the labor market, marketablity, sets wages. If the government issues a fiat to raise wages then this only adds to the inflationary pressures all the more afforded by the fiat currency. The raise always comes after the devaluation of the currency, thus little is gained by the recipient and the greater harm is to the inflationary effects of the whole. The dog chasing his tail comes to mind.

Those that recieve the raise have done nothing on their own to produce more, hence no contribution to real growth.

This is the effects of a fiat combined with corrupt politicians. JMO

Originally Posted by roundabout

Real growth stimulates competition, competition for labor as well. Thus competitive wages and an increase in the ability of those in the labor market, marketablity, sets wages. If the government issues a fiat to raise wages then this only adds to the inflationary pressures all the more afforded by the fiat currency. The raise always comes after the devaluation of the currency, thus little is gained by the recipient and the greater harm is to the inflationary effects of the whole. The dog chasing his tail comes to mind.

Those that recieve the raise have done nothing on their own to produce more, hence no contribution to real growth.

This is the effects of a fiat combined with corrupt politicians. JMO

Well I have to disagree on this part. Wages have not kept up with the cost of living over the years. Part of the reason is the minimum wage has stagnated. The recipient of an increased minimum wage does not have to produce more. The reason for the wage increase is so the recipient does not fall behind the increase in the cost of living. When wages dont keep up with the cost of living, then wage earners are actually earning less and less. Your point about growth in a healthy economy is well taken, but growth is not sustainable if consumer wages deteriorate. Consumers are the root of the economy. Also city and state agenciies cannot remain healthy on an ever decreasing tax base due to poverty wages. Neither can social security.

Redpony, if there was no inflationary pressure on the dollar, then a agreed upon wage would be acceptable to all parties as an entry level for that position. Cost of living is another term for inflation. Inflation just means that your currency is worth less, thus you feel the need for a "cost of living" increase.

The bottom rung will always bear the brunt of the load with a fiat inflationary dollar. This can be viewed as a transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top. Then the government steps in and redistributes the wealth, but, by this time the little man is already behind the eight ball. The dog is chasing his tail with a fiat, and all fiats end in less than ideal conditions.