Thread: To Ron Paul Supporters: Civility is Essential

Originally Posted by MW

I must have missed that. I've seen a lot of folks with serious concerns about Paul comment regarding his voting record, statements, position on certain issues. However, I haven't seen any consistent hammering of Ron Paul supporters. Personally, I think we should all strive to keep our posts less personal. Just my opinion.

Perhaps when you feel that fire in your belly after reading a post it would be wise to walk away from the keyboard for 10-15 minutes prior to responding. Just a thought.

Yeah, from what I have seen here is that some here question Ron's toughness on border security and interior enforcement. I've seen people question his voting record, and statements he has made. Unfortunately, some don't take this at face value, and turn it into a mud-slinging contest. Accusations are made about agendas, being influenced by the MSM, being a neocon etc. When there is nothing further from the truth regarding my views.

On this forum, we should promote nothing but open, honest, non-loaded dialogue. There are a lot of suppoters of Ron Paul here. Great! There are also a number of people here that believe that Ron Paul will do little to stop the invasion of our southern border. If people disagree, thats fine, let's just keep it civil and strictly on the facts with no questioning of people's character, stawman attacks etc. I would like to add that most Ron Paul supporters here are civil and respecful when they discuss these issues.

Over the summer I joined a conservative online political forum (I can't recall the name anymore). I would post anything newsworthy that was written about Ron Paul. I didn't consider it "spamming" because I wasn't bombarding them every day. And my reason for doing so, was because Ron Paul was not getting any coverage from the MSM. The internet is our ("we the people") only means of leveling the playing field so to speak. I just wanted to share Ron Paul with other Americans who knew nothing about him, and open up a dialogue between people. Boy was I in for a rude awakening!

I was completely SHOCKED by the attacks and name calling coming from so called "conservatives." And this was only after my first post! I thought I was in a radical Far Left forum the way they were behaving. Just seeing the name "Ron Paul" seemed to trigger this unrational behavior.

I was outrageously being accused of being part of some Liberal conspiracy. That we are "faking" Ron Paul's online support, so that he gets the GOP nomination and has to face Hillary (which they claim he can't beat)! Can you believe that??? It was sooo hard not to want to verbally attack these people, but I remained calm and tried to get them to focus on the issues and to engage them in a civil debate. But it was useless! It was like trying to get a bunch of 4 year olds to stop name calling and explain themselves rationally. It was absolutely insane how they were acting and I eventually left because I couldn't even conduct a civilized conversation with these people. I can only assume that they've been brainwashed by the likes of Hannity and Rush because they use the same behavior on their shows too!

Look, Ron Paul supporters are very passionate about their candidate because we are well aware of the seriousness of this next election. I mean, this is it folks if we elect another Globalist. As a Paul supporter, I think we silently feel this sense of urgency to WAKE PEOPLE UP. Ron Paul represents real change to the staus quo, which is a major threat to these people.

As I had metioned in another post, Ron Paul has a wide spectrum of supporters. Some are dumb kids who don't know how to conduct themselves in a professional manner. They react emotionally when they feel there has been an injustice. While I don't always agree with their methods, I can certainly understand their outrage when you see how Ron Paul is treated at times - attempts to keep him out of the debates; censoring his winning poll numbers after the debates; excluding him from many major polls, etc.

I also believe that while some supporters get slightly out of hand at times, there are also those who are getting nervous of his success and are trying to sabotage his campaign by spamming and pretending to be actual Ron Paul supporters. Some of the accusations remind me of the people against the Minutemen - making false accusation but never having anything to back it up with. It's unfortuate that is has come down to this but I guess that's politics.

ALIPAC is better than most forums. I left an anti-illegal political forum from NY in order to join this one because if someone disagrees with you over there, they resort to name calling. I mean, these are supposed to be adults! No wonder kids are so screwed up today! I wonder if they would say half the things they post if they were face to face with the people they are attacking. Maybe they feel hinding behind a computer keyboard gives them license to act like a bunch of jerks. Who knows..

Personally, I feel that if someone is going to dish out advice about civility, it shouldn't just be directed toward Ron Paul supporters. There's enough rude behavior to go all around.

Originally Posted by butterbean

Originally Posted by MW

They throw out slurs such as "neo-con" or "fake Republican" or "sheeple" or "jerks" or worse. They say people are "stupid," "idiots," "traitors," and worse for not supporting Ron Paul.

Yeah, I've been called a name or two right here on ALIPAC for not supporting Paul.

MW, I've seen you taunted for having your own opinions on Ron Paul. Alot of his supporters are overdoing it big time. I enjoy a healthy debate, but some people just go too far. If anything, sometimes their pushy tatics make me look MORE at the other candidates. But, basically, I can't find a candidate yet that I am fully satisfied with anyway.

Well, when MW stops spending all is time trying to discredit Ron Paul then perhaps things might change. I don't mind having discussion, but when this dude posts the SAME articles over and over and over for months, it gets tiresome and desperate. I would think he would spend more time telling us about the virtues of Duncan Hunter.

I have been posting here for many many many months and we all had our "own" candidates and acknowledged it. We were really all on the same side because of our common cause against illegal immigration, but a funny thing happened. As more and more Ron Paul supporters starting showing up here, MW and 'some' Tancredo supporters started posting disparaging and many times false posts on Ron Paul. I would literally have the same conversation I had a month previous, pointed out the same things.. yet here it is again, a month later - the same naysayers posting again.

So, to me.... I saw desperation. As Ron Paul's support started to really take off, then 'some' people didn't like it - Because they saw 'their' candidates as losing.

Look at the timeline and 'who' starts threads.. you will see a definite pattern.

BrightNail wrote:

Well, when MW stops spending all is time trying to discredit Ron Paul then perhaps things might change. I don't mind having discussion, but when this dude posts the SAME articles over and over and over for months, it gets tiresome and desperate. I would think he would spend more time telling us about the virtues of Duncan Hunter.

I have been posting here for many many many months and we all had our "own" candidates and acknowledged it. We were really all on the same side because of our common cause against illegal immigration, but a funny thing happened. As more and more Ron Paul supporters starting showing up here, MW and 'some' Tancredo supporters started posting disparaging and many times false posts on Ron Paul. I would literally have the same conversation I had a month previous, pointed out the same things.. yet here it is again, a month later - the same naysayers posting again.

So, to me.... I saw desperation. As Ron Paul's support started to really take off, then 'some' people didn't like it - Because they saw 'their' candidates as losing.

Look at the timeline and 'who' starts threads.. you will see a definite pattern.

Once again, you've proven to be true to form. Each and every time you attempt to make things personal - I'm going to call you on it! Yes, you have once again attempted to turn a thread I didn't initiate into a personal drubbing of me. It's getting a little old. Honestly BrightNail, the only time I mention your name is when personally defending myself against your attacks. Perhaps you should consider following the same policy.

In response to your self-initiated personal attack:

Well, when MW stops spending all is time trying to discredit Ron Paul then perhaps things might change.

I've been a member of ALIPAC for over a year and have posted over 6500 times. Trust me, I don't spend all my time sharing my views and presenting FACTS on Ron Paul.

I don't mind having discussion, but when this dude posts the SAME articles over and over and over for months, it gets tiresome and desperate.

I challenge you to show me where I've initiated a thread by posting the "same article" repeatedly! I posted the following in the middle of a thread once, and then after some thought, decided it was worthy of its own thread.

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=11832

Actually, this was done over a 24 hour period. So I ask you again, where are these "articles" I've posted redundantly month after month? Personally, I would suggest you have a propensity to attack individual posters (such as myself) in an attempt to discredit their integrity and character. I guess you think that somehow weakens the value of their argument. I'm not the only one who you've done this with. I'm sure there are several folks on ALIPAC that can attest to this fact.

I would think he would spend more time telling us about the virtues of Duncan Hunter.

My sharing of information on Paul has nothing to do with Hunter. My support of him and interest in sharing information on Paul are unrelated. There are a lot of folks such as yourself that have a lot of positive things to share in regards to Ron Paul, and I can respect that. However, I'm of the opinon that many of these folks haven't actually researched Paul thoroughly (I have). That failure to research oftentimes can lead to an individual getting the wrong impression of a candidate. Why do you begrudge myself and other posters the right to show the other side of Ron Paul - the less appealing side? You have frequently commented that we are afraid of Paul, however, I might suggest you are afraid of people learning the truth about Paul. Oh, and please don't act like I'm the only one on ALIPAC that doesn't support Ron Paul.

As more and more Ron Paul supporters starting showing up here, MW and 'some' Tancredo supporters started posting disparaging and many times false posts on Ron Paul.

Once again I challenge you to identify one post that I've initiated on Ron Paul that wasn't backed with evidence! You make a lot of accusations but your proof is seriously lacking. Not once have I attempted to pass something off as fact that was fiction - nor have I attempt fo mislead anyone - but I'm sure you know that.

I would literally have the same conversation I had a month previous, pointed out the same things.. yet here it is again, a month later -the same naysayers posting again.

And what's so hard to understand about that? We constantly get new folks joining ALIPAC. Additionally, the same facts frequently apply in many different threads. For example, there could be numerous threads where Ron Paul's vote not to send military on the border, failure to cosponsor the SAVE Act, vote on illegal immigrant amnesty, vote against the border fence, vote against bill to bar drivers' licenses for illegal aliens, vote against extending a voluntary workplace verification pilot program, vote against killing the pro-illegal-alien Section 245(i) program might apply. I'm going to suggest your argument regarding this is invalid.

In the future please provide facts, not empty rhetoric and accusations, when attempting to discredit me. Thank you.

I think BearFlagRepublic said it best with this:

On this forum, we should promote nothing but open, honest, non-loaded dialogue. There are a lot of suppoters of Ron Paul here. Great! There are also a number of people here that believe that Ron Paul will do little to stop the invasion of our southern border. If people disagree, thats fine, let's just keep it civil and strictly on the facts with no questioning of people's character, stawman attacks etc. I would like to add that most Ron Paul supporters here are civil and respecful when they discuss these issues.

In the first instance, he would be backtracking from his stance while a candidate. If he vetoes the all-inclusive bills, then nothing will ever get done. Or does he have some sort of plan to have Congress limit bills to one or two items each

Maybe if he keeps not signing these bills, they will eventually come up with the right ones.

But you know, we have laws and more laws on the books. Will it be a bad thing if Congress doesn't stuff even more on there?

We do not need a single immigration bill to fix 90% of the problem - other than addressing the anchor baby problem. WE have what we need - so the idea that congress is so busy trying to come up with a solution is just silly. We have the solution - just use it.

I know Ron Paul kinda rankles a lot of people because he has said our actions in the ME has caused us problems. So we get a lot of this 'Blame American First' stuff.

First off, the 'blame America' thing is, in my opinion, an administration invention and people lile Limbaugh have effectively used it. I wish Americans would stop, just stop, using any of the popular phrases that are used - no matter which side you are on. Remember when you use a phrase, it is probably created by politicians and for their own agenda - not yours. You are just helping them. Let's create our own phrases.

Now we can say that Ron Paul is right about our meddling in the ME causing a lot of our problems. That may be hard to take for some - but we are going to have to face one very hard fact - what we have done and what we are doing, just isn't working.

We have been over there meddling in their affairs for 50 years. That's just a fact. To assume that isn't going to engender some hatred and some reactions from some is not thinking.

When we see this President actively and openly encouraging and protecting illegal immigration - knowing it is not just illegal, but dangerous, harmful, destructive - surely we can ask ourselves if his actions elsewhere are in the best interests of this country.

How can we look at what he has done to this country through illegal immigration, his unholy friendship with Mexico, etc., and see it for the destructive thing it is , but somehow look at what we are doing in the ME and say 'it's a good thing'.