Thread: Some choice quotes from The Koran

What exactly is a pacifist? There are words used in arguments that I have heard all my life, think I know the meaning of them, but when I hear them used in some ways, I realize I might not know what they mean. Or I certainly don't know what the user means by his/her use of them.

Of course the Bible is full of bloody passages - to deny it or try to excuse it makes no sense. It's there. Hopefully, not many people adhere to those any more - but who knows.

I think people who profess to be Christians do some very awful things these days - not necessarily in the name of Christianity - in spite of it, I think.

I don't know, beheadings, chopping off limbs, etc., are pretty bad. I guess it's nothing like clean warfare. You know we showered a country, who held no real threat to us, with bombs. We blew up innocent children and civilians. I guess somehow that is better than beheading? Don't have to get up close and personal with them that way.

[quote=orchid_noir]

Originally Posted by "Sam-I-am":3u3nzglu

Originally Posted by BrightNail

An equal amount of horrific quotes can be taken out of the bible.

Prove it. I'm merely reporting facts on the "religion of peace" if you don't like these facts I can't help you. TFB, don't read them.

Lets not forget the whole dominion thing, you know, the crusades, the inquisition, etc...

[/quote:3u3nzglu]

The inquisition happened over 300 YEARS AGO. The Crusades happened over 400 years ago. The Crusades can also be said to be a RESPONSE to the islamic invasion of Europe (anyone remember Romania and Vlad the impaler?) Reconquista was originally a Spanish term referring to the fact that they managed to repatriate their country from islam.

I'm talking about atrocities that are being committed in the name of Allah NOW. I'm talking about genocides of non muslims in N. Africa that have not only happened but are ongoing NOW, NOT 300 YEARS AGO. The ethnic cleansing of non-muslims in Bethlehem and Lebanon is going on NOW, not THREE CENTURIES AGO. The systematic oppression of people of other faiths is going on NOW in EVERY islamic theocracy WITHOUT exception.

The koran is the ONLY religious text that SPECIFICALLY TARGETS Christians and Jews.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

What exactly is a pacifist? There are words used in arguments that I have heard all my life, think I know the meaning of them, but when I hear them used in some ways, I realize I might not know what they mean. Or I certainly don't know what the user means by his/her use of them.

Of course the Bible is full of bloody passages - to deny it or try to excuse it makes no sense. It's there. Hopefully, not many people adhere to those any more - but who knows.

I think people who profess to be Christians do some very awful things these days - not necessarily in the name of Christianity - in spite of it, I think.

I don't know, beheadings, chopping off limbs, etc., are pretty bad. I guess it's nothing like clean warfare. You know we showered a country, who held no real threat to us, with bombs. We blew up innocent children and civilians. I guess somehow that is better than beheading? Don't have to get up close and personal with them that way.

Afghanistan was harboring AL Quadea, the bastards responsible for the Madrid bombings, the London bombings, the WTC bombing and 9-11. You harbor terrorists you get what you deserve.

Iraq, of course, is a different story.

Originally Posted by kniggit

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...1050wmv&ak=nul

The lady in this video has a great perspective on the conflict. Supposedly aired on Al-Jazeera TV.

The woman in the video, Wafa Sultan has also been marked for DEATH for this VERY interview. She has two fatwahs on her head and now lives in fear.

THIS is how the "religion of peace" responds to criticism. Just ask Theodore Van Gogh. Oh, but you can't, because they killed him.

"Theodore Dalrymple
Why Theo Van Gogh Was Murdered
The filmmaker focused on the shameful abuse of Muslim women by Muslim men in Europe.
15 November 2004

The slaughter of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh on the streets of Amsterdam, in broad daylight, by a young man of Moroccan origin bent on jihad, has at last dented Dutch confidence that unconditional tolerance can be on its own the unifying principle of a viable society. For tolerance to work, it must be reciprocal; tolerance appears to the intolerant jihadist mere weakness and lack of belief in anything. Unilateral tolerance in a world of intolerance is like unilateral disarmament in a world of armed camps: it regards hope as a better basis for policy than reality.

Like most people in Western democracies, Van Gogh, by all accounts a brash and combative man, took his freedom of expression for granted. Most of us most of the time do not reflect much on the fact that such freedom is an historical exception rather than an historical rule, a reversible achievement rather than a free gift of God. There are still many who would rather kill than brook any contradiction of their opinions or beliefs, even while they live in the most tolerant of societies.

But why kill Theo Van Gogh, of all the people who have expressed hostility to radical Islam? Perhaps it was mere chance, but more likely it resulted from his work’s exposure of a very raw nerve of Muslim identity in Western Europe: the abuse of women. This abuse is now essential for people of Muslim descent for maintaining any sense of separate cultural identity in the homogenizing solution of modern mass society.

In fact, Islam is as vulnerable in Europe to the forces of secularization as Christianity has proved to be. The majority of Muslims in Europe, particularly the young, have a weak and tenuous connection to their ancestral religion. Their level and intensity of belief is low; pop music interests them more. Far from being fanatics, they are lukewarm believers at best. Were it not for the abuse of women, Islam would go the way of the Church of England.

The abuse of women has often, if not always, appealed to men, because it gives them a sense of power, however humiliated they may feel in other spheres of their life. And the oppression of women by Muslim men in Western Europe gives those men at the same time a sexual partner, a domestic servant, and a gratifying sense of power, while allowing them also to live an otherwise westernized life. For the men, it is convenient; interestingly, but perhaps not surprisingly, almost the only openly hostile expressions toward Islam from British-born Muslims that I hear come from young women, some of whom loathe it passionately because they blame it for their servitude.

Religious sanction for the oppression of women (whether theologically justified or not) is hence the main attraction of Islam to young men in an increasingly secular world. This explains why a divide often opens between brothers and sisters in the same European Muslim family; the sisters want liberty, but the brothers enforce the old rules. They have to, or the whole gratifying system breaks down.

This, I suspect, is the source of the rage against Theo Van Gogh."

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_11_15_04td.html

Afghanistan was harboring AL Quadea, the bastards responsible for the Madrid bombings, the London bombings, the WTC bombing and 9-11. You harbor terrorists you get what you deserve.

Iraq, of course, is a different story.


Yes, Afghanistan was harboring Al Queda - still is, I'm sure. But whatever the reason we deemed 'good', a lot of innocent people were killed in the process. Children weren't harboring terrorists.

And yessir, Iraq is different - we had no 'good' reason - just couldn't come up with one = although they tried on a daily basis to find one that fit the bill. Bottom line, I don't see beheadings, etc., as any worse than carpet bombing and shellings of entire cities. One is just on a smaller scale - so I guess the heiousness of it is on a smaller scale.

[quote=orchid_noir]

Originally Posted by "Sam-I-am":11h924t9

Originally Posted by BrightNail

An equal amount of horrific quotes can be taken out of the bible.

Prove it. I'm merely reporting facts on the "religion of peace" if you don't like these facts I can't help you. TFB, don't read them.

Old Testament or New Testament?

Old Testament, 745 violent passages/occurrences

New Testament, 126 violent passages/occurences

Lets not forget the whole dominion thing, you know, the crusades, the inquisition, etc...

These involve anything from precociousness on part of the deity*, to religious intolerance, to "do as I say, not as I do," to just plain outbursts of anger. Most are directed by or said to be approved/blessed by the deity.

Almost none of the organized religions are above reproach when it comes to messages of violence or intolerance, and some of the ones that are not that organized, too.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that I believe the assertions that all of ANY religion are peaceful, but those in glass houses, logs and motes in eyes, and all.

Originally Posted by dragons5

There are very few Islamic sects that are peaceful, tolerant and willing to grant rights and freedoms to all.

Sadly proven true time and again.


*"The deity" is used above out of respect for those who do not believe in the utterance or writing of their deity's name outside of prayer/supplication, not anything else, just to clarify in advance. [/quote:11h924t9]


If you knew your history,you'd know that the crusaders were formed to fight the islamic hordes who were invading and massacreing other nations . All the way to the gates of Vienna when they almost succeded in world domination .

And it is obvious you don't know the Bible either .

Not one verse demands we submit by force others to judaism or christianity .

The quran demands all are to submit by peace or war .

Most pro islamic Ron Paul supporters have this type of attitude also .

I think , Islam is dangerous and has never brought anything good to any nation it has INVADED !

I don't care if homosexuals have 'rights' because I don't think perversion is a right .

Perversion has destroyed this nation ,imo, from the first feminist right down to latest tolerence of child molesters and zoophiles who parade in our streets and stomp on the Holy Land [PRIDE] . Gropping each other and parading naked while dragging little children along with them . The animals have PETA, the environment has EPA ,the children have no one to protect them or their innocence .

Anything goes and no absolutes .No perversion is too vile for us to condemn .

But islam is not the answer . All of the above is done by some in all religions .

Originally Posted by nntrixie

Afghanistan was harboring AL Quadea, the bastards responsible for the Madrid bombings, the London bombings, the WTC bombing and 9-11. You harbor terrorists you get what you deserve.

Iraq, of course, is a different story.


Yes, Afghanistan was harboring Al Queda - still is, I'm sure. But whatever the reason we deemed 'good', a lot of innocent people were killed in the process. Children weren't harboring terrorists.

SOrry, but the Afghanis should of thought of their children BEFORE they decided to harbor Al Qaeda. They got what they deserved -- in spades. You lie down w/dogs, you get up w/fleas.

uhmmm two words.

Foreign Policy


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MW, Sam_I_am -- you are each posting selective articles of "jihadists" killing someone or another, and putting a fatwa or someone and then saying "see, they are evil". Americans (christians in their eyes) have killed tens of thousands of them in the past few years. What is your point? You are seeing things from ONLY your POV.

Also, when you have a religion/culture thousands of years old and it crossecs with another cutlure, wholly different - what do you think happens? The DUTCH, should not be indiscrimantely putting potential persons in their midsts. This does not validate a need to "kill" them as "evil". Look at how whites viewed blacks just a few decades ago.. as dogs, as dumb apes.... perceptions. Percpetions to validate horrible acts in the name of a righteous cause.

You CANNOT change a culture to fit into another. That is WHY it is a horrible idea to manipulate and get involved the way we do. Your examples only show that NOT intervening is the right way. We cannot begin to understand the politics and the culture that is thousands of years old.

Leave them alone. Trade and be friends, but that is it. The Dutch, France should alter their immigration issues if they have problems. Export them. How does this figure into American safety? It doesn't. IF IT DID, then we deal with it. But to assume there are boogymen in the closet that we must arm ourselves against is, imho, the wrong approach.

I find it rather interesting that with all of the horrible killings thruout this world, the Dutch one makes the rounds - islofascist are evil.... settting he tone.

Originally Posted by Amercitizen

It amusing every time the facts of Islam and the Quran are stated....some pacifist is offended.

America - Home of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave!

A chickenhawk calling me a pacifist. How appropriate.

So, now all wars regardless if they are in the name of Freedom or Profit, they mean the same to you? This is a pregenerated propaganda war with no basis, other than to nation build and oil.- And you have the bad manners to suggest this war is about 'being brave'! I think its about being stupid.

Originally Posted by Sam-I-Am

SOrry, but the Afghanis should of thought of their children BEFORE they decided to harbor Al Qaeda. They got what they deserved -- in spades. You lie down w/dogs, you get up w/fleas.

People. This is WHY RON PAUL MUST WIN. AND WHY our government must be taken back, and given to the people.