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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    'Surreal' Trump meeting on guns left Republicans reeling, Democrats optimistic

    'Surreal' Trump meeting on guns left Republicans reeling, Democrats optimistic

    By Lauren Fox and Ted Barrett, CNN
    Updated 8:09 PM ET, Wed February 28, 2018

    (CNN) Nobody knew quite what to think.

    After a wide-ranging, televised meeting Wednesday at the White House, Democrats walked away stunned and with some tepid optimism that something substantial could happen on guns, while Republicans appeared flummoxed.

    After all, President Donald Trump had defied traditional GOP orthodoxy on an issue as essential to the Republican brand as any: guns.

    And unlike earlier meetings where Trump has embraced bipartisanship without any specificity, Trump was explicit about what he wanted Wednesday. On camera, he'd pushed to raise the age at which an individual can purchase a rifle from 18 to 21 even after a weekend lunch with officials from the National Rifle Association, who have publicly opposed the change. Trump called to expand background checks and told the House's Majority Whip Steve Scalise that a concealed carry bill would never pass attached to legislation to incentivize states to enter data into the national background checks database.

    "I don't know how much clearer he could have been and the whole country can watch it," said Minnesota Democratic Sen. Amy Klobuchar.

    Democrats argued that Trump had power Democratic President Barack Obama never had: trust with the Republican base that he would not infringe on the Second Amendment.

    "With President Trump no one believes he will take their guns away," said West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin.

    But the impact of the meeting at the White House, which stunned some within the President's own party and puzzled aides back on the Hill, was still uncertain.

    "Holy s---," one Democratic Senate emailed as they watched the meeting unfolding.

    "I don't know, man," another Democratic Senate aide said. "We'll see what happens, I guess."

    Trump meeting's impact on gun proposals unclear

    Earlier in the day, negotiations to bring gun legislation to the floor of the Senate had broken down and there was no clear path for floor consideration of any bill, regardless of scope. But the meeting at the White House and Trump's obvious and continued push to do something raised questions from aides and lawmakers as to whether the dynamic had changed -- or whether Trump would simply shift away from his positions and enthusiasm for action in the days ahead, as he has multiple times in the past.

    Republicans returned to Capitol Hill still a bit unsettled by what they'd heard. For days, lawmakers in the GOP had a united and concise message: if Congress were to do anything, it would be enforcing school safety and fixing the National Instant Criminal Background Checks system. There was little appetite to do more.

    But Trump wanted something "comprehensive." In the meeting Trump called for Manchin-Toomey, legislation that had expanded background checks on internet and gun show sales, to be the base bill. As lawmakers brainstormed ideas around the table, Trump encouraged many of them to be added to the background check bill.

    Sen. Marco Rubio, a Republican from Florida, was skeptical "comprehensive" could work.

    "I think that's ideal if you could do it all at once," Rubio said. "I just don't think it's likely to pass knowing this place."
    Sen. John Cornyn, the Senate's whip who had been seated next to Trump during the meeting described the meeting as "fascinating television" and "surreal."

    "My takeaway is that we like to start with background checks and build from there and see where we can get consensus," Cornyn said. "And to be the most obvious place to start is the Fix NICs bill that has 46 co-sponsors."

    He added that rolling multiple gun bills into one was "easier said than done."

    Many Republicans remarked that they'd seen Trump call for comprehensive, bipartisan legislation in the past in televised White House meetings that never materialized. Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Republican from South Carolina, warned that Trump would need to follow through this time or risk hurting his reputation.

    "If we don't do it this time, then this will get old." Graham said, "If the President has another one of these sessions and he doesn't follow through -- it's going to hurt him. It's going to hurt the Republican Party."

    Graham had been a part of similar on-camera meeting last month, that one dedicated to finding a solution on immigration, another issue on which lawmakers haven't been able to find a deal.

    "I've seen this movie before" Graham added. "If it ends up like immigration he's done himself a lot of harm. If we can actually deliver, he's done himself and the country a lot of good."

    Stronger Republican reaction

    Republicans also offered some strong rebukes to a few of Trump's comments.

    Sen. Dan Sullivan, a Republican from Alaska, warned there were several Republicans with concerns about raising the age individuals could buy rifles from 18 to 21.

    "I'm probably not the only senator in the US Senate who isn't supportive of that. But again, it's not like we're not trying to be constructive but you know I have 16-year-old Alaskans who go out and hunt and they do it seriously. ... We're very, very different from Connecticut and other places," Sullivan said.

    Others were worried that during the meeting that Trump said he wanted individuals who were identified as potentially dangerous to have their guns taken from them before they went to court.

    "Strong leaders don't automatically agree with the last thing that was said to them. We have the Second Amendment and due process of law for a reason," Ben Sasse, a Republican senator from Nebraska, said in a statement. "We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them."

    CNN's Phil Mattingly, Sunlen Serfaty and Kristin Wilson contributed to this report.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/polit...ing/index.html
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I think it's important not to confuse the right to purchase a gun with the right to use a gun. They need to make this clear in the debate that raising the age to purchase a semi-automatic rifle doesn't preclude your right to use a gun, to hunt with a gun, to go to target practice, or even use a gun to defend yourself or someone else. It's just the right to purchase a gun.
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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Minimum Age to Purchase & Possess

    It is common practice to set legal ages for activities that require maturity such as voting, driving, and drinking alcohol. Purchasing and possessing a firearm necessitate the same, or greater, ability to act responsibly, and data shows that young adults account for a disproportionate number of gun homicides and suicides. By strengthening our minimum age laws for purchasing and possessing firearms, we will help protect our young people and the public at large from all too common tragedies.

    BACKGROUND

    Laws imposing minimum age requirements for the possession and purchase of firearms are intended to decrease access to firearms by young people and, correspondingly, to decrease the number of suicides, homicides, and unintentional shootings among that population.

    • In 2014, 21,101 people under the age of 21 were shot by guns. 3,265 died from those gunshot wounds.1.)) Of these deaths, 1,925 were classified as homicides, 1,145 as suicides, and 122 as the result of unintentional shootings;2
    • Firearms were used in 41% of suicide deaths among individuals under age 21 in 2014.3


    Laws that prohibit unsupervised possession or purchase of firearms by children and young people can prevent tragedies.
    Based on data from the FBI, 18- to 24-year-olds account for a disproportionate percentage of arrests for homicide and violent crime in general.4 A survey of convicted gun offenders in 13 states found that nearly a quarter of them would have been prohibited from obtaining firearms at the time of the crime if the minimum legal age for possessing any type of firearm was 21 years.5 Yet, as described below, federal law and the laws in most states continue to allow unsupervised access to firearms by individuals in these age groups.6


    Additional information about laws preventing child access to firearms is included in our summary on Child Access Prevention.


    SUMMARY OF FEDERAL LAW


    Federal law in this area distinguishes between long guns (rifles and shotguns) and handguns, and between gun possession and gun sales. Federal law also provides stronger age restrictions for sales by licensed gun sellers.

    MINIMUM AGE FOR GUN SALES AND TRANSFERS


    Under federal law Ė Handguns Long Guns (Rifles and Shotguns)
    Licensed firearms dealers Dealers may not sell or deliver a handgun or ammunition for a handgun to any person the dealer has reasonable cause to believe is under age 21.7 Dealers may not sell or deliver a long gun, or ammunition for a long gun, to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under age 18.8
    Unlicensed persons Unlicensed persons may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under age 18, with certain exceptions*.9 Unlicensed persons may sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a long gun or long gun ammunition to a person of any age.

    Minimum Age for Gun Possession: Subject to limited exceptions*, federal law prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.10 Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.
    *Exceptions: Federal law provides exceptions for the temporary transfer and possession of handguns and handgun ammunition for specified activities, including employment, ranching, farming, target practice and hunting.11

    SUMMARY OF STATE LAW


    Several states and the District of Columbia impose minimum age requirements that extend beyond those contained in federal law. Those laws generally fall into four categories:

    • Laws imposing a stricter minimum age for handgun purchases than federal law;
    • Laws imposing a minimum age for all long gun purchases, from licensed or unlicensed sellers;
    • Laws imposing age requirements for possession of handguns that are stricter than federal law; and
    • Laws imposing a minimum age for possession of long guns.


    Additional information about laws preventing child access to firearms is included in our summary on Child Access Prevention.


    STATE MINIMUM AGE LAWS THAT EXTEND BEYOND FEDERAL LAW


    State Purchase of a Handgun Purchase of a Long Gun12 Possession of a Handgun Possession of a Long Gun
    Alabama
    Alaska 1813 16 (without parental consent)14
    Arizona 18 (without parental consent)15 1816
    Arkansas 18 (without parental consent)17
    California 2118 1819
    Colorado
    Connecticut 2120 1821 2122
    Delaware 2123 18 (without parental consent)24
    D.C. 2125 1826 2127 21 or 18 with parental consent28
    Florida 1829 1830
    Georgia
    Hawaii 2131 2132 2133 2134
    Idaho 18 (without parental consent)35 18 (without parental consent or hunting license, or while hunting)36
    Illinois 2137 2138 2139 2140
    Indiana 1841
    Iowa 2142 18 (without parental consent)43 2144 1845
    Kansas
    Kentucky
    Louisiana 1846
    Maine 16 for transfers, 18 for sales47
    Maryland 2148 1849 2150
    Massachusetts 2151 1852 2153 15 (with parental consent) or 1854
    Michigan 1855 1856
    Minnesota 18 in cities (without parental consent) or 14 outside cities (without parental consent)57 14 (with firearms safety certificate), otherwise 1658
    Mississippi
    Missouri 18 (without parental consent)59
    Montana
    Nebraska 2160 1861
    Nevada62 1863
    New Hampshire
    New Jersey 2164 18 N.J. Stat. Ann. ßß 2C:39-10e., 2C:58-6.1a, 2C:58-3c(4).)) 2165 1866
    New Mexico 1967
    New York 2168 2169 1670
    North Carolina
    North Dakota
    Ohio 2171 1872
    Oklahoma 1873 1874
    Oregon 1875 18 (without parental consent)76
    Pennsylvania 1877 1878
    Rhode Island 2179 1880 1881
    South Carolina
    South Dakota
    Tennessee
    Texas 18 (without parental consent)82
    Utah 18 (without parental consent)83 18 (without parental consent)84
    Vermont 1685
    Virginia
    Washington 21 (for possession outside private property)86 1887
    West Virginia 18 (except in hunting)88
    Wisconsin 1889 1890
    Wyoming 2191 1892


    STATE LAWS GOVERNING MINIMUM AGE TO PURCHASE AND POSSESS FIREARMS

    For citations to these laws, please see the chart above.

    States Imposing Minimum Age Requirements for All Firearm Purchases


    Although federal law prohibits licensed dealers from selling long guns to persons under 18, there is no federal regulation of the sale of long guns by unlicensed dealers to minors. Similarly, while federal law prohibits handgun sales by licensed dealers to persons under 21, unlicensed dealers are prohibited only from selling handguns to persons under 18. As listed above, many states have imposed a minimum age for the purchase of all firearms, including both handguns and long guns, regardless of whether they are purchased from a licensed firearms dealer.

    States with Stricter Minimum Age Requirements for Possession of Handguns than Federal Law


    Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Washington, and the District of Columbia impose minimum age requirements for the possession of handguns which are stricter than the federal minimum of 18.93

    States Imposing Minimum Age Requirements for Possession of Long Guns


    While federal law prohibits federally licensed firearms dealers from selling a long gun to anyone under 18, there is no federal minimum age for possession of a long gun. Twenty-three states have enacted laws to at least partially close this gap, and impose a minimum age at which persons can possess long guns. Many of these laws contain exceptions which allow younger children to possess long guns where the minorís parent or guardian is present, or when the minor is engaged in hunting or target shooting.

    SELECTED LOCAL LAW


    New York City

    In New York City, however, no person under age 21 may be granted a permit or license to purchase, possess or carry any firearm, with certain exceptions. It is also unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person under age 21 unless he or she is exempted. A person under 21 may carry, fire or use a rifle or shotgun without being subject to the permit requirement if he or she is in the presence of, or under the direct supervision of, a permit holder, or engaged in a military drill, competition, or target practice at a firing range.94

    KEY LEGISLATIVE ELEMENTS


    The features listed below are intended to provide a framework from which policy options may be considered. A jurisdiction considering new legislation should consult with counsel.

    • Minimum age of 21 is imposed for all handgun sales, from licensed or unlicensed sellers (California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, District of Columbia).
    • Minimum age of 18 is imposed for all long gun sales, from licensed or unlicensed sellers (22 states and the District of Columbia).
    • Minimum age of 21 is imposed for possession of handguns (Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and the District of Columbia).
    • Minimum age of 18 is imposed for possession of long guns (16 states and the District of Columbia).
    • Younger teens are allowed to possess long guns only under direct adult supervision.


    http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/minimum-age/

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Minimum Age for Gun Possession: Subject to limited exceptions*, federal law prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.10 Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.
    *Exceptions: Federal law provides exceptions for the temporary transfer and possession of handguns and handgun ammunition for specified activities, including employment, ranching, farming, target practice and hunting.11
    Like I said.

    President needs to make sure people know this. The reason I bring it up is every time the media on Fox News talks about raising the age, people say "well, my Dad loves taking my brothers hunting and to target practice, so they wouldn't want to wait until he's 21, that would be a big disappointment." You can still take them hunting, farming, target practice, and defend yourselves with a gun, you just can't buy one. Ainsley Earhart was one of the people worried about raising the age, and when one of their guests pointed out that this just applies to purchases, she says "oh, they can still use it, just not buy it", that turned her in a whole new direction.
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