Thread: Anti-Trump Delegates Are Making A Plan To Pick Their Own Vice Presidential Nominee

A proposed rules change outlines a way they could do it. The “arranged marriage option.”

posted on Jul. 9, 2016, at 12:10 p.m.
Rosie Gray


John Sommers Ii / Getty Images

WASHINGTON — Anti-Trump delegates are preparing a rules change proposal that would chart a path for delegates to choose their own vice presidential nominee at the Republican National Convention, instead of voting for Donald Trump’s choice.

A draft proposal obtained by BuzzFeed News outlines several changes to Rule 40 that would make it easier for delegates to reject whomever Trump picks as his running mate and present their own alternative. BuzzFeed News has learned that it will be presented at the Rules Committee meeting next week in Cleveland ahead of the convention.

Already, delegates are technically not bound to vote for the nominee’s choice for vice president. But in the past, vice presidential picks have largely been automatically ratified by the convention after being chosen by the nominee.

This year is different, as a vocal contingent of anti-Trump delegates to the convention are searching for ways to stop Trump from being nominated — or, failing that, to at least assert control over the party’s vice presidential nominee.

The proposed rules change centers around Rule 40, which has already been a topic of much discussion this year. One of the rule’s clauses requires a candidate to win the support of the majority of delegates in eight states in order to be considered for the nomination. The rule was changed from five to eight states in 2012 to prevent Ron Paul’s name from being given as an option. Changing that rule would allow non-Trump candidates to be considered for the nomination on the floor.

Here’s the gist of the proposed changes regarding choosing the vice presidential nominee:

*Deleting the clause in rule 40(a) which says that if there is only one candidate for VP, a “a motion to nominate for such office by acclamation shall be in order and no calling of the roll with respect to such office shall be required.”

*Adding a clause in rule 40(b) that would require the candidate for the VP nomination to have support from a majority of delegates from three or more states — a lower threshhold than eight.

*Attempting to minimize the amount of influence the presidential nominee has in this process, by adding the following sentence: “The preference of any candidate seeking nomination for president of the United States shall have no bearing upon the submission of names for nomination for vice president of the United States nor the recording of votes for the same.”

*Adding a new clause that calls for multiple rounds of voting if a VP candidate doesn’t reach ⅔ on the first round: “If no vice- presidential candidate shall have received a two-thirds in the first round of balloting, the chairman of the convention shall direct the roll of the states be called again and shall repeat the calling of the roll until a candidate shall have received a majority of the votes entitled to be cast in the convention in the subsequent roll of the states.”

A source with the Free the Delegates movmeent, a group that is attempting to stop Trump by advocating that delegates be able to vote their conscience at the convention instead of remaining bound, described the proposal as the “arranged marriage option.”

“It’s a counterweight to Trump,” the source said. “It’s the grassroots saying if you’re going to do this, you’re going to do it with our pick.”

Getting delegations from three states to get behind a candidate is a threshold that is “high enough to weed out crazy people, while low enough to let a few states come to terms” with a candidate, the source said.

The change “will take the decision making out of the hands of the RNC and Trump and into the hands of delegates,” the source said.

A Rules Committee member who has seen the proposal described it as “a clarification of what delegates are allowed to do. It also makes it easier for that decision to go to the delegates rather than be decided by acclimation.”

One of the main arguments against attempts to block Trump at the convention has been that the voters have spoken; Trump won the primary fair and square.

But, the Rules Committee member pointed out, “obviously, that doesn’t apply to the vice presidential nomination.”

“We don’t know who Trump would pick for that position but I think we have a right to have a say on that,” the member said.

Trump has said that he will announce his vice-presidential pick ahead of the convention. Top contenders include Newt Gingrich, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, and according to the Washington Post, retired Gen. Mike Flynn.

Here’s a draft of the proposed rules change:

(please click on source link to read)

https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/a...LDV#.huYPWDPbw

Republicans mull tweaking platform language

They are malcontents trying to sabotage the will of the people. JMO

It seems to me if delegates are to wield this much power over who is elected to be the party nominee, then the delegates themselves should be required to secure their positions by election as well. Who decides who gets to be delegates? How is this decided now?

More and more the primary elections loom as obsolete and unmotivated in the first place. End primary elections. Criminalize the invasion of privacy in requiring voters to report party affiliation for purposes of voter registration. Death to the Two Party System!

Originally Posted by pkskyali

It seems to me if delegates are to wield this much power over who is elected to be the party nominee, then the delegates themselves should be required to secure their positions by election as well. Who decides who gets to be delegates? How is this decided now? . . .

Do You Want to be a National Convention Delegate?

https://www.leadershipinstitute.org/writings/?ID=12
The national Rules of the Republican Party now also provide that state Republican Party rules for national delegate selection prevail over state law on this subject. Most delegates are elected in states with primaries, but primary and convention rules vary greatly from state to state...
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Do You Want to be a National Convention Delegate?

Download the PDF Version Here

In early 1961 I decided to try to be a Goldwater delegate to the 1964 Republican National Convention. When Barry Goldwater beat the party establishment and won the G.O.P. Presidential nomination, I was his youngest delegate at San Francisco's Cow Palace. And I've been deeply involved in politics ever since.

In 1975 I wrote an article for the Young Americans for Freedom magazine New Guard entitled, "So You Want to Go To A Convention?"

Oklahoman Steve Antosh read the article and followed my advice.

The next year, at age nineteen, Steve was elected a Reagan delegate to the G.O.P. National Convention. Four years later, in 1980, Steve, who was then chairman of Oklahoma State YAF, was the National Director of Youth for Reagan.

For you, as for Steve Antosh and for me, conservative activism could be the route to the Big Convention and, perhaps, a career in the public-policy process.

Hard Work Pays Off For Conservatives

If you're a liberal Democrat, and you're a black lesbian militant with a Spanish surname, the Democrats' convention rules are written for you.

If you are a conservative -- Democrat or Republican -- chances are you'll have to work hard to win a seat on your state's national convention delegation.

Each state has its own rules for national convention delegate selection. States may and often do change their state laws and party rules between national conventions.

Under their national rules and U. S. Supreme Court decisions, state Democratic parties may adopt rules for national convention delegate selection which are inconsistent with state laws.

The national Rules of the Republican Party now also provide that state Republican Party rules for national delegate selection prevail over state law on this subject.

Most delegates are elected in states with primaries, but primary and convention rules vary greatly from state to state. Learning your state's applicable laws and party rules is a key, first step toward becoming a delegate.

If your state is one of the many which have no presidential primary, you may have to mount a major operation to attract people to a caucus or win support from local delegates to a district or state convention.

If you already know how to draw a crowd, work a convention, use parliamentary procedure, form alliances, and count votes, you have a head start on the road to the Big Convention.

If your state elects delegates in a presidential primary, your problems will be somewhat different.

A primary can involve precinct organization, TV, radio, mailings, other advertising, social media, a great deal of money, and many, many more people than a convention.

It helps to be an expert at convention politics and primary election politics, but your personal reputation and your candidate preference are likely to prove much more important.

Some states have "winner take all" presidential primaries.

Other states use proportional representation.

Under this system, presidential candidates who get a majority of the primary votes may get only a majority of the state's delegate votes, and candidates who received a sizable minority of the primary votes may get some delegate votes from the state.

Rules for delegate apportionment in proportional primary states vary widely.

In all states with primaries, delegate votes are bound for one or more ballots to specific candidates at the national convention by state rules, depending on the results of the state primaries. Candidates may “release” delegate votes that were bound to them.

In some primary states, delegates are elected by the party separately from the presidential primary.

Neither state conventions nor primaries can oblige the delegates to vote a certain way on other issues which may come before the national convention, such as credentials contests, the party platform, or proposed changes in the party's national rules.

You can see how important it is to work hard to familiarize yourself with the rules which govern the delegate selection process in your state.

In every state, whether delegates are selected by primaries or by conventions, the system is wide open at the bottom.

Anyone can be a member of any party and participate in its delegate-selection process. You win if you get the most people to turn out for a primary, a caucus, or a convention.

Building Your Base

I began in early 1961 to consider the available routes in Louisiana to become a delegate to the 1964 G.O.P. nominating convention.

There seemed to be only two sorts of people elected delegates to national conventions: those who had worked long and hard for the party over many years, and those who had contributed substantial sums of money to the party and its candidates.

Neither avenue was open to me. I had neither the time nor the funds to qualify. To develop a third route, I settled on youth politics.

I helped organize Louisiana State University's YAF chapter in 1961. In 1962 I helped organized L.S.U.'s first College Republican club and was the first elected College Republican state chairman for Louisiana.

In 1963 and early 1964, I ran the youth campaign for Charlton Lyons, the G.O.P. candidate for governor of Louisiana. Mr. Lyons won eight, smashing, upset victories in college student mock elections, which raised my credit in the party. Later in the spring of 1964, I was elected state chairman of the Young Republicans.

I wore out my old Rambler organizing youth activities across the state.

Having worked closely with party leaders in all eight congressional districts, I became one of the handful of Republicans known to virtually every local leader who would be at the state convention. Senior party leaders were comfortable with me.

I ran for national delegate with the simple slogan: "Elect one young person." The 1964 Louisiana Republican state convention elected four at-large delegates to the 1964 G.O.P. convention: three well-off, veteran party activists and me.

The Team

Of course I would never have been a delegate if my presidential candidate, Barry Goldwater, had not been popular in the state party. I ran openly as a Goldwater supporter.

This brings me to the central fact for aspirants to delegate slots:

In a national presidential nomination contest, each candidate's district and state organizations may run slates of delegate candidates.

If you are not slated by a candidate's organization, you are very unlikely to be elected a national delegate at a district or state convention or in a state primary. While occasionally, particularly in a convention state, a party senior statesman can be elected as an uncommitted delegate, newcomer mugwumps (those who sit on the fence with their mug on one side and their "wump" on the other) go nowhere.

Why might a candidate's state organization want you on their team? Here are some questions your candidate's organization will consider when you ask to be slated as a delegate or alternate delegate:

1. Are you committed to our candidate?

2. Are your commitments ever shaken by pressure, threats or bribes?

3. Do you have personal supporters whose help would strengthen our candidate's entire slate of delegates?

4. Will you be a hard-working campaigner for our slate?

5. Are you sure to attend the national convention?

6. Will you be useful to our candidate in winning more delegates to our side at the national convention?

7. Do you have support and contacts in our candidate's national organization?

8. Is there any likelihood you will say or do something foolish to damage our candidate?

9. Is there anything in your background which would embarrass our candidate?

10. Do we like you?

If you are philosophically sound, technologically proficient, and movement oriented, you should pass muster on all these questions. Being a well-known volunteer leader would increase your chances of being slated by your candidate's organization.

Alternatives May Work For You

You don't have to be a delegate to go to a presidential nominating convention, of course.

An alternate delegate has all the rights and privileges of a delegate except voting. An alternate delegate may have a better time, because at contested conventions delegates are encouraged not to leave the convention floor even during dull speeches.

In fact, you do not have to be either a delegate or an alternate delegate to have an impact on the events at a convention.

When I was a Goldwater delegate in 1964, my major accomplishment at the national convention in San Francisco was minor, as a volunteer stuffing campaign envelopes for other delegates in the Goldwater mailroom.

In 1968, as a Reagan alternate delegate, I was able to help convince a couple of uncommitted delegates to vote for Reagan.

At the 1972 G.O.P. convention, I was neither delegate nor alternate. But I worked successfully with the conservative forces fighting the well-organized, well-funded liberal attempt to change the national party rules governing delegate allocation and bonus delegates.

A plan I drafted, which came to be known as the California Compromise (or the Briar Patch Plan), was adopted by the 1972 convention after a major, nationally televised, conservative vs. liberal fight.

The principal speaker for my plan was California Governor Ronald Reagan. Since 1972, that delegate allocation plan has withstood liberal challenges in court and at all subsequent G.O.P. national conventions. It still governs the allocation of delegates to the convention.

The circumstances back in 1972, when I was not even an alternate delegate, permitted me to have my biggest impact to date on what went on at a presidential nominating convention.

Since 1964, I've participated actively in each of the GOP national conventions, usually as a delegate or alternate delegate and, since 1988, as a member of my party's national committee.

So don't miss a national convention just because you can't be a delegate.

Start Now

In politics you can start late, but you can never start too early.

Maximize your effectiveness by joining your candidate's campaign organization as soon as you can. Call your candidate's office. Sign on early as an activist. The election laws put a premium on volunteer efforts. You should be welcomed with open arms.

Your work for your candidate, not whether or not you are a delegate, will determine your position in your candidate's convention organization.

The Big Convention comes only once every four years. It's too good an opportunity to miss. If you are serious about becoming a delegate or alternate, you should get a copy of your state party's rules from local or state party officials, or from your candidate's state or national organization.

Conservatism is now politically fashionable. But few people will beg you to assume leadership. As author Paul Johnson wrote, leadership, in its essence, is a combination of courage and judgment.

If you plan carefully, work hard, and keep alert for good breaks, you may make a difference at a national convention. And you'll learn a lot.

https://www.leadershipinstitute.org/writings/?ID=12

An excellent post, JohnDoe2. Very informative.

I think we have two choices.

The political parties must divide into regional franchise parties that function independently and organize from that into overseeing national organization.

Or, eliminate party affiliation as a part of voter registration nationwide, no more primary elections anywhere and then organize national parties based on the monolithic function of the national party.

In a way the former is preferable and certainly not excluded from the latter. There is no reason that even if a national party could organize without voter registration that there not be splinter local factions of a national political party. It all depends on how a political party decided to function without primary elections. And apparently, there are states that already have no primary elections.

JohnDoe2, you seem to have a lot of resources. I'd like to see a table summarizing, state by state, how nominees are selected by political parties for national elections.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

. . . JohnDoe2, you seem to have a lot of resources. I'd like to see a table summarizing, state by state, how nominees are selected by political parties for national elections.

It's called GOOGLE SEARCH.

YOU can find anything if you put the right words in the right order in the search box and click SEARCH.

This isn't what you asked for but I found it interesting.

Reform proposals[edit]

There are several proposals for reforming the primary system. Some have called for a single nationwide primary to be held on one day. Others point out that requiring candidates to campaign in every state simultaneously would exacerbate the purported problem of campaigns being dominated by the candidates who raise the most money. The following proposals attempt to return the primary system to a more relaxed schedule, and would help less-funded candidates by lowering the cost of entry.

California Plan (American Plan)[edit]

One reform concept is the graduated random presidential primary system, variations of which have been referred to as the American Plan or the California Plan. This plan starts with small primaries, and gradually moves up to larger ones, in 10 steps, with states chosen at random.

The idea is that fewer initial primaries, typically in smaller states, would allow grassroots campaigns to score early successes and pick up steam. However, since states are chosen at random, travel costs may still be significant.

Delaware Plan (Fourfold Round Plan)[edit]

A commission empaneled by the Republican National Committee recommended the Delaware Plan in 2000. This plan had states grouped by size into four groups, with the smallest primaries first, then the next-smallest, and so on. Populous states objected to the plan, however, because it would have always scheduled their primaries at the end of the season. Other criticisms included the wide geographic range of the states, necessitating high travel costs. The Delaware Plan was put to vote at Republican National Convention of 2000 and rejected.

Rotating regional primary system[edit]

The National Association of Secretaries of State has endorsed a rotating regional primary system, with the country split into four regions: the West, the Midwest, the South, and the Northeast.^[51] Unlike the Delaware Plan and the American Plan, the Rotating Regional Primary System would lower campaigning costs by restricting groups of primaries to single, contiguous regions.

Author and political scientist Larry J. Sabato is also a proponent of this plan, but his proposal would have the order of regional primaries determined by lottery on January 1 of each presidential election year instead of on a rotating basis. In addition, his plan would allow for a few small population states, such as Iowa and New Hampshire, to hold their primaries in advance of the first region.

Criticisms of the regional plan include the higher entry costs than the other plans (since 1/4 of the country would vote in the first regional), and the political bias of certain regions (the South or the Northeast) unduly influencing the selection of a nominee.

Interregional primary plan[edit]

In the interregional primary plan, the country is divided into geographical regions. On each primary date from March to June, one state from each of six regions votes. Each election date would contain a wide variety of perspectives. The order of the states in each region is set by a lottery. In a 24-year cycle, every state would have a chance to be among the first primary states.

The primary criticism of this plan is that travel costs would be quite high: in each round, candidates would essentially have to cover the entire country to campaign effectively. Contrary to most reform plans, this would reduce the ability of lesser-funded candidates to build up from small contests to large ones.^[52]

Timing adjustment[edit]

In the 2008 Republican primary, states that ran early primaries were punished by a reduction of 50% in the number of delegates they could send to the national convention. Extension of this idea would set timing tiers, under which states that ran earlier primaries would send proportionally fewer delegates to the national convention, and states that waited would get a higher proportional number of delegates to the convention. For example, the party allowed primaries before March 1 to send 40% of delegates; those during March could send 60%; those during April could send 80%; those during May could send 100%; and those during June could send 120%.

The effect of such a plan would be clumping of primaries at the beginning of each month. It would still allow states to determine the timing of their own primaries, while giving them some incentive to hold primaries later. The disadvantage of the timing adjustment method is that it does not reduce travel time as the regional plans do, although it does permit regional groups of states to voluntarily clump together in a single superprimary as they have done in the past.

In practice, however, this timing tier system did not prevent states from moving their primaries in 2008 and 2012. For example, during the 2012 Republican primary, Florida and several other states still moved their primaries to earlier dates despite being penalized delegates.

Both parties then enacted more severe penalties in 2016 for violating their timing rules. For Republicans, states with more than 30 delegates that violate the timing rules will be deprived of all their delegates but nine; states with less than 30 will be reduced to six.^[53] For Democrats, states violating these rules will be penalized half of their pledged delegates and all of their unpledged delegates.^[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ential_primary

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

It's called GOOGLE SEARCH.

YOU can find anything if you put the right words in the right order in the search box and click SEARCH.

You know, you hardly post anything but news articles and the whole forum is flooded with them. Do you use Google? I do myself and hardly use anything else. If that's how you come up with all these news articles, you should say so. Nothing is quite as encouraging as a personal endorsement.

GOOGLE is my biggest source.

GOOGLE also knows more about me than the government ever will.