Thread: China: We'd nuke U.S. if provoked over Taiwan

Defens--thanks so much for posting that several point quote. Clinton also granted China "most favored nation" status even though they are a Communist Nation with blood on their hands against their own people. China has a 1 child rule. Most Chinese like may of "eastern" thought prefer male children. Girls are sometimes destroyed or abandoned so they can have another one. Children born with maladies or handicaps are also destroyed or abandoned. Many are placed in orphanages and after a time moved to "dying rooms" where they are starved to death, alive and conscious, in the same way Terri Schiavo was allowed to die but Terri was unconscious.

These little children starve in excruciating pain to death, fully cognizant of what is happening to them. They are tied to a bed and locked in a room for two weeks.

And this is a nation that we to buy our American Companies?

And this is a nation whose goods we wish to purchase?

And this is a nation whose coffers we want to build with US Dollars?

Bill Clinton needs to be tried for Treason and placed in Jail for the rest of his life for giving China our technology and Most Favored Nation status.

George Bush needs to be tried for Treason and placed in Jail for the rest of his life for not revoking the Most Favored Nation status with China; for promoting other free trade agreements that are not in the best interest of the American People; for failing to secure our borders; for failing to enforce US Immigration, US Labor and US Civil Rights Laws; for the terrorist attacks on America that could have been avoided had he enforced US Immigration Law; and for modifying the HUMVEE since the Gulf War when it was specified with armor and removing this armor and sending this unarmored, modified equipment to Iraq that has cost most of the American Troop deaths in Iraq. It was George Bush's responsibility the moment he took the oath in January of 2000 to deport every single illegal alien that had entered this country illegal or who had entered legally and whose permission had expired. It was George Bush's responsibility the moment he took the oath in January 2000 to ensure that our troops have the proper equipment; that our borders are secure; that our nation and people are protected; and no lives are lost as result of his plans, policies, actions or inactions in violation of American Law and our Standards of War.

George Bush showed no mercy in Texas when he was Governor for people whose actions improperly took the lives of others.

I see no reason to show him mercy when as President his actions improperly took the lives of others.

And, I have one important question about our relationship with China. WHERE are all of those "right to lifers" who pushed our nation into a purely family decision about Terri Schiavo yet they encourage trade relationships with China--a nation who MURDERS babies. LIVE, ALREADY BORN BABIES. Where is the moral indignation against China?? No--it's the hypocrites who are determined to run our government into the ground who are profiting by trade with China.

I heard the State Department's spokesman questioned about China's nuke threat yesterday. Do you know what his response was??? It's "UNFORTUNATE"!! UNFORTUNATE????? It is CHILLING.

The administration could have blocked the sale of IBM, a national security threat, to China but IT DID NOTHING. And, they can still block the sale of UNOCAL. But, as yet, they have done NOTHING. This one is REALLY scary. This is something that would impact the US FOREVER. Someone needs to quit "bloviating" about how tough this administration is and actually prove it by taking a stand about China taking over our country.

Where do we borrow all of this money that has created this huge deficit and national debt???? CHINA! Now, what are we going to do if we make them mad and they decide to call all of those loans?? WHY are we allowing this??? AGAIN--one simple thing---MONEY. GREED.

Bootsie...you are so right. The actions of the US Government with regards to China smells of something really really bad all the way back to Bush One...through Clinton....and now Bush Two. The policies are inexplicable.

Bootsie, I can assure you that none of them would be like this man.



FAITH UNDER FIRE
Tortured for Christ
The extraordinary story of 1 man's victory over Communism

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: July 16, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Ron Strom
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

He was an outspoken anti-communist with the scars to prove it, a former Jew who embraced Christianity with uncommon devotion, and a visionary whose life was dedicated to helping believers who suffer for their faith.

He was Richard Wurmbrand, founder of leading Christian-persecution organization The Voice of the Martyrs.


As WorldNetDaily reported, Wurmbrand began Voice of the Martyrs in 1967 after enduring years of imprisonment and torture at the hands of Communists in his native Romania.

As a young married man in 1937, Wurmbrand and his wife, then Jewish, traveled to a small village in Romania where Christian Wolfkes, an old carpenter who had been praying that he migth share the Gospel with a Jew, gave them a copy of the New Testament. Wurmbrand and wife Sabina eventually converted to Christianity.


Richard Wurmbrand

As a pastor in Romania during World War II, Wurmbrand sought to reach out to occupying soldiers with the Gospel. He and Sabina, however, suffered repeated beatings and arrest by the Nazis. Jewish family members perished in Germany's concentration camps.

A decision in 1945 would shape the rest of Wurmbrand's life. A bio on the Voice of the Martyrs' website states:


1945: Richard and Sabina Wurmbrand attend the "Congress of Cults" arranged by the Romanian Communist government. As many religious leaders come forward to swear loyalty to the new regime, Sabina Wurmbrand tells her husband to "wipe the shame from the face of Jesus." Richard, knowing the outcome of such an act, steps forward. The delegates believe he too will praise the new leadership, but, to their surprise, Richard tells the 4,000 delegates that their duty as a Christian is to glorify God and Christ alone.
That act of obedience to his God caused Wurmbrand's eventual designation as "Prisoner No. 1" by the Romanian government. He was arrested by police in 1948 on his way to church on a Sunday morning. Three years were spent in solitary confinement.

In 1950, the communists arrested Sabina for helping with the underground church she and Richard had begun and forced her to work on the Danube Canal. Her 9-year-old son, Mihai, was left behind and forced to live on the streets.

After three years, Sabina was released and told her husband had died in prison. In 1956, however, after serving eight and a half years in prison, Richard was released, having withstood horrific torture. Despite warnings not to do so, Richard again began working in the underground church in Romania.

After being turned in by an associate, Wurmbrand, in 1959, against was arrested. He served in prison for another five years.

In his book "In God's Underground," Wurmbrand describes the various horrors he suffered in prison: sleep deprivation; starvation diet; forced to race around his tiny cell for hours until he collapsed; beatings with truncheons and boots; water funneled down his throat until it filled his stomach, which was then violently kicked; the soles of his feet flogged Inquisition-style; guards urinating and spitting into his open mouth; drugged into delirium; and terrorized by dogs kept inches from his throat.

In 1965, the Wurmbrands were "ransomed" out of Romania for $10,000. They traveled to Scandinavia, England and eventually to the U.S. The pastor's captors warned him upon leaving Romania that he was not to speak against communism, a warning he did not heed.

The next year, just one month after arriving in the U.S., Wurmbrand testified before the U.S. Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, where he stripped to the waist to reveal 18 wounds on his neck, back and chest – evidence of the torture he had suffered at the hands of the Communists.

Talking about his time in solitary confinement, Wurmbrand told the senators: "For years I … never [saw] sun, moon, flowers, snow, stars, no man except the interrogator who beat [me], but I can say I have seen heaven open, I have seen Jesus Christ, I have seen the angels and we were very happy there."

Speaking requests poured into Wurmbrand after his Senate appearance, and he became committed to sharing about the atrocities Christians were subject to in Communist countries. Wurmbrand became known as "The Voice of the Underground Church" and "The Iron Curtain St. Paul." At the same time the Romanian secret police was plotting to kill the pastor.

In 1967, the Wurmbrands began Jesus to the Communist World, which later became The Voice of the Martyrs. The ministry's first monthly newsletter was published later that year. Richard also released "Tortured for Christ," the story of his persecution by his Communist captors.

In the ensuing years, Wurmbrand expanded his work of helping persecuted Christians and educating the West about abuses, with activity eventually in 80 nations.

In 1989, Wurmbrand's home country, Romania, gained its freedom after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the ousting of the oppressive regime of Elena and Nicolae Ceausescu.

After 25 years of exile, in 1990 Richard and Sabina returned to Romania and helped set up a Christian printing facility. In fact, the city of Bucharest offered one of the very cells Wurmbrand had been held to store Christian books.

In the early '90s, Wurmbrand worked to get the Gospel and Christian literature to former Communist countries, including Albania, Romania, Moldavia, Russia, Ukraine and Bulgaria. At the same time, Wurmbrand led new efforts to help Christians in Asia and Africa.


Sabina died in 2000, and less than a year later, Richard succumbed, at the age of 91.

Besides "Tortured for Christ," Wurmbrand wrote several other books, including "From Suffering to Triumph," "If Prison Walls Could Speak, "Marx and Satan" and "The Church in Chains."

Wurmbrand's Voice of the Martyrs ministry was a way to help suffering Christians as he had been helped in his time of need. When asked how he survived as an illegal pastor in Romania, Wurmbrand told the Senate panel:

"The Christians sustained me everywhere. I had no salary. I had no regular salary, but the Christians everywhere sustained me. In Romania the first question asked of a pastor or a priest of any denomination is: Has he been in prison? If he has been in prison he is all right. All the Christians sustain him."

Sign up for a free subscription to The Voice of the Martyrs' newsletter now.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=45245

They will not move toward democracy, they are only using "capitalism" to get our dollars to buy the USA for their own purposes.

They would send a missile to the US without a second thought and no regret if and when it suits their purpose to do so

They absolutely will move toward Democracy. It's going to take a LONG time, but it will happen. The groundswell of 1.3 billion people unified over something will be too much to resist. Already they are fascinated with Korean pop culture, which is fashioned from Hollywood. The young kids over there are breaking their necks to get educated in American colleges and universities.

I spent all last year in the Middle East, where people were saying that Democracy will never take root. One of the hadjis I worked with said that he was a Bryan Adams fan. The Scorpions played a sold out show in Qatar. There is an Arabic version of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" on the UHF network in Iraq. They all wear Gap jeans. THE WEST IS COMING.

The Iraqis turned out in droves to elect a provisional government last November. Democracy is an undeniable juggernaut. I've seen it take hold firsthand. It will conquer China, too. There will be differences, make no mistake. Look at how different the Democracies of Europe are when compared to America. But the principle of freedom is undeniable.

Of course, this would mean that they would have to acknowledge, apologize for and make reparations for past atrocities (Tibet, Tiannamen to name a couple) but EVERY new Democracy has had to do it. Big deal. We have, Germany has, Japan has. So what.

As far as them attacking us, it ain't gonna happen. At least not anytime soon. Like I said in my first post in this string, if they attack us their economy will be completely devastated. I highly doubt they will put their unprecedented economic growth at risk over us and Taiwan. Then again, they can feel free to take out LA-LA land whenever they want.

"rebel"....you are speaking of course about the "people" of China, not their Regime, correct?

I believe people everywhere are born to be free and that it is a natural desire.

The young people of China like young people everywhere are fascinated with Americans. The older people of China remember that we defeated Japan that occupied great portions of China.

I hope you are right about the Chinese Regime being afraid to attack the United States. I hope you are right about the "people" of China moving towards democracy.

I believe and have posted that I believe the Chinese people are our friends. I'm not sure why I feel that way other than I believe people are people and feel natural gratitude to the American People who saved them during WWII and have sacrificed jobs and livelihoods to help the people of China economically.

Does the Chinese Regime think the same way? No, I do not believe they do. They are cut from a different thought with a different goal.

We'll pray for the Chinese people. Their future is in their hands, and we have their backs covered.