Thread: Conservative Immigration Reform Bill

JeffDG, I think you misunderstood the birthright citizenship proposal.
We are not against LEGAL IMMIGRATION and children born to legal immigrants and even legal visa holders should have the benefits of citizenship.
The proposal is to require at least ONE parent be of legal status OR a citizen. Many of the children born to illegal alien unwed mothers would be denied automatic citizenship. The proposal is intended to stop pregnant illegal immigrants from crossing the border just in time to deliver said baby at taxpayer expense and save millions of taxpayer dollars that go to support these kids and their parents.

Originally Posted by Texan123

JeffDG, I think you misunderstood the birthright citizenship proposal.
We are not against LEGAL IMMIGRATION and children born to legal immigrants and even legal visa holders should have the benefits of citizenship.
The proposal is to require at least ONE parent be of legal status OR a citizen. Many of the children born to illegal alien unwed mothers would be denied automatic citizenship. The proposal is intended to stop pregnant illegal immigrants from crossing the border just in time to deliver said baby at taxpayer expense and save millions of taxpayer dollars that go to support these kids and their parents.

The specific item I was responding to had two things:
"Define "born under American jurisdiction" as having one of two parents who are legal American citizens at the time of birth"

So, if a child was born to two legal immigrants, they would not qualify.

Second:
"Impose a fifteen year moratorium on all forms of legal immigration. "

How does that support "legal immigration"?

Originally Posted by JeffDG

Originally Posted by Texan123

JeffDG, I think you misunderstood the birthright citizenship proposal.
We are not against LEGAL IMMIGRATION and children born to legal immigrants and even legal visa holders should have the benefits of citizenship.
The proposal is to require at least ONE parent be of legal status OR a citizen. Many of the children born to illegal alien unwed mothers would be denied automatic citizenship. The proposal is intended to stop pregnant illegal immigrants from crossing the border just in time to deliver said baby at taxpayer expense and save millions of taxpayer dollars that go to support these kids and their parents.

The specific item I was responding to had two things:
"Define "born under American jurisdiction" as having one of two parents who are legal American citizens at the time of birth"

So, if a child was born to two legal immigrants, they would not qualify.

Second:
"Impose a fifteen year moratorium on all forms of legal immigration. "

How does that support "legal immigration"?

Only children born to citizens should inherit that status, as only citizens hold an allegiance to the United States alone. To that end I would also eliminate the atrocity of dual citizenship.

The fifteen year moratorium allows for the assimilation of the existing legal foreign population and facilitates the stabilization of the nation, which reinforces and firmly establishes American custioms and culture, which in turn serves to unite the citizen population. This is also where English as the official language comes in, and for the same reasons. Thus, foreigners coming in understand what is expected of them, and can assimilate into society. Those who choose not to become citizens should be shown the door; a nation is defined by its people, and filling this one with foreigners is the most effective way to eradicate it.

As for your earlier post, the H1-B visa farce has been abused by domestic and foreign employers since its inception. I have heard and read untold stories of H1-B employees (mostly Indian, hmmm...) who, once established in postitions of management go out of their way to remove Americans from the workplace in order to instill more H1-B's. It's a sham, and everyone knows it. Foreign worker visas must stop, and the sooner the better.

Originally Posted by melena29

Originally Posted by JeffDG

Originally Posted by Texan123

JeffDG, I think you misunderstood the birthright citizenship proposal.
We are not against LEGAL IMMIGRATION and children born to legal immigrants and even legal visa holders should have the benefits of citizenship.
The proposal is to require at least ONE parent be of legal status OR a citizen. Many of the children born to illegal alien unwed mothers would be denied automatic citizenship. The proposal is intended to stop pregnant illegal immigrants from crossing the border just in time to deliver said baby at taxpayer expense and save millions of taxpayer dollars that go to support these kids and their parents.

The specific item I was responding to had two things:
"Define "born under American jurisdiction" as having one of two parents who are legal American citizens at the time of birth"

So, if a child was born to two legal immigrants, they would not qualify.

Second:
"Impose a fifteen year moratorium on all forms of legal immigration. "

How does that support "legal immigration"?

Only children born to citizens should inherit that status, as only citizens hold an allegiance to the United States alone. To that end I would also eliminate the atrocity of dual citizenship.

The fifteen year moratorium allows for the assimilation of the existing legal foreign population and facilitates the stabilization of the nation, which reinforces and firmly establishes American custioms and culture, which in turn serves to unite the citizen population. This is also where English as the official language comes in, and for the same reasons. Thus, foreigners coming in understand what is expected of them, and can assimilate into society. Those who choose not to become citizens should be shown the door; a nation is defined by its people, and filling this one with foreigners is the most effective way to eradicate it.

As for your earlier post, the H1-B visa farce has been abused by domestic and foreign employers since its inception. I have heard and read untold stories of H1-B employees (mostly Indian, hmmm...) who, once established in postitions of management go out of their way to remove Americans from the workplace in order to instill more H1-B's. It's a sham, and everyone knows it. Foreign worker visas must stop, and the sooner the better.

OK...I guess I misunderstood from the title that "Americans for Legal Immigration" meant that there was support for those who come to the US legally, and opposition to those who break the law to get here. I now understand that it's just another gathering of Xenophobic people, 99% of whom are descended of immigrants themselves who feel that "We're here now, let's pull the ladder up behind us".

Originally Posted by melena29

Only children born to citizens should inherit that status, as only citizens hold an allegiance to the United States alone. To that end I would also eliminate the atrocity of dual citizenship.

Where, in the US constitution does the word "allegiance" appear. If you want to imply that foreigners are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, then care to explain why I had to pay the speeding ticket I got last year?

Originally Posted by melena29

The fifteen year moratorium allows for the assimilation of the existing legal foreign population and facilitates the stabilization of the nation, which reinforces and firmly establishes American custioms and culture, which in turn serves to unite the citizen population. This is also where English as the official language comes in, and for the same reasons. Thus, foreigners coming in understand what is expected of them, and can assimilate into society. Those who choose not to become citizens should be shown the door; a nation is defined by its people, and filling this one with foreigners is the most effective way to eradicate it.

What if there had been such a moratorium when the Pilgrims arrived? When the great wave of Irish came here? The United States has been built on immigration over two centuries. It's part of the vibrancy of the country. If your culture is not strong enough to absorb those new people, then it doesn't deserve to survive.

Originally Posted by melena29

As for your earlier post, the H1-B visa farce has been abused by domestic and foreign employers since its inception. I have heard and read untold stories of H1-B employees (mostly Indian, hmmm...) who, once established in postitions of management go out of their way to remove Americans from the workplace in order to instill more H1-B's. It's a sham, and everyone knows it. Foreign worker visas must stop, and the sooner the better.

Which post earlier are you referring to?

1. You had to pay the speeding ticket because you were speeding.

2. The vibrance of the country is due entirely to assimilation. E Pluribu Unum (out of many, one), the melting pot. When something is "absorbed" it becomes part of the entity that absorbs it, not the other way around. That is what assimilation accomplishes. The nation that was born required that moratorium, lest it would not survive. It's served us splendidly, don't you think?

3. The one regarding the increase of Employment based immigration quotas. You might be interested to know that immigrants arriving who were processed through Ellis Island (those in obeyance of the law) were subjected to a series of exams and questions. One of those questions was "Do you have employment arranged"? If the answer was yes, they were swiftly deported. The reasoning being that if an immigrant already had a job lined up, he was taking it from an American. Now we bring them in for that very purpose. As I said, all foreign worker programs must end at once. It's time for protectionism.

4. I suspect you are a troll.

Originally Posted by melena29

1. You had to pay the speeding ticket because you were speeding.

So, as a foreigner, I'm subject to the jurisdiction of the United States while in the US, then?

Originally Posted by melena29

2. The vibrance of the country is due entirely to assimilation. E Pluribu Unum (out of many, one), the melting pot. When something is "absorbed" it becomes part of the entity that absorbs it, not the other way around. That is what assimilation accomplishes. The nation that was born required that moratorium, lest it would not survive. It's served us splendidly, don't you think?

It certainly has served splendidly. Yet now, you doubt that it is strong enough to serve you in the future.

Originally Posted by melena29

3. The one regarding the increase of Employment based immigration quotas. You might be interested to know that immigrants arriving who were processed through Ellis Island (those in obeyance of the law) were subjected to a series of exams and questions. One of those questions was "Do you have employment arranged"? If the answer was yes, they were swiftly deported. The reasoning being that if an immigrant already had a job lined up, he was taking it from an American. Now we bring them in for that very purpose. As I said, all foreign worker programs must end at once. It's time for protectionism.

What does that have to do with H-1Bs? The difference between Labor Certification (for an Employment Based Immigrant Visa) and a Labor Condition Application (for H-1B) is like night and day. For the employment visa, you need to prove, including advertising the job and interviewing applicants (including having legitimate job-based reasons for rejecting) that there are no qualified US based employees before receiving an immigrant visa. After that, you still wait 5-7 years for permission to work.

My suggestion was to have more people go through the more rigorous process. If employers could get someone for a job needed through the immigrant-visa process, the use and abuse of H-1Bs would go down.

Originally Posted by melena29

4. I suspect you are a troll.

Nope...sorry to disappoint. I suspect you are a Xenophobe, however.

Legal is Legal and people who come here legally come through the proper channels..with the correct documentation, permits,visa's, etc..hence the word LEGAL

Illegal is Illegal...and people who come here illegally come here under the cover of darkness in boxes..sneaking and crawling over the border just to name a few ways...without the proper documentation, permits, visa's..etc ....hence ILLEGAL...

If you can't understand that then your at the wrong site..

Kathyet

Originally Posted by kathyet

Legal is Legal and people who come here legally come through the proper channels..with the correct documentation, permits,visa's, etc..hence the word LEGAL

Illegal is Illegal...and people who come here illegally come here under the cover of darkness in boxes..sneaking and crawling over the border just to name a few ways...without the proper documentation, permits, visa's..etc ....hence ILLEGAL...

If you can't understand that then your at the wrong site..

Kathyet

I concur 100% with you. I am a legal resident of the United States, who happens to be a Canadian citizen. I am going through literally years (may stretch to beyond a decade) of documentation, money, and effort in order to maintain legal status, while we see things like Section 401 and 402 of HR 4321 that will grant illegals status in preference to those who are doing things legally.

My reading thus far here leads me to believe that there are many here who do not believe in legal immigration at all, and are simply using illegal immigration as a fig leaf to cover their xenophobia. Things like saying that only the children of citizens (not including legal immigrants) should be US citizens lead me to that reading, and it's not directed at you at all.

So, you support states being able to impose bans on firearms, regardless of how arbitrary, and also permitting states to restrict freedom of speech?

Considering those are rights protected by other amendments in the Constitution, I don't see how repealing a separate amendment would endanger the right to bear arms and freedom of speech. I would argue that an overbearing federal government empowered by the 14th to "assign rights" is much more dangerous to liberty than fifty individual states with fewer resources, weaker armies, and more local accountability.

So you support punishing people who are doing things right in order to get back at lawbreakers.

I support a sane immigration policy. Considering the current unemployment rate of natural born citizens, there is no justification to import more workers into the country. And considering the historical pattern showing that, as population grows, the ability to be adequately represented in a civic government goes down dramatically, I think a pause is justified.

Why do that? You've already repealed the 14th, so this phrase is now meaningless.

The proposed definition is separate from the fourteenth amendment.

OK...I guess I misunderstood from the title that "Americans for Legal Immigration" meant that there was support for those who come to the US legally, and opposition to those who break the law to get here. I now understand that it's just another gathering of Xenophobic people, 99% of whom are descended of immigrants themselves who feel that "We're here now, let's pull the ladder up behind us"....What if there had been such a moratorium when the Pilgrims arrived?

I was unaware I was an official spokesman of Alipac. I am honored by this new promotion! And why does it always come down to name calling? Xenophobic? I don't think a paralysing, irrational fear of something is necessary to see this country suffers from unsustainable attitudes toward both legal and illegal immigration. In fact I think logic compels us to admit current attitudes have failed.

Also, considering what happened to the Indians due to their own unchecked immigration policy, do you really want to use the pilgrims as justification to oppose a moratorium?