Thread: Dealing with B.S. artists

We recently had two b.s. artists on this site. One of them, Roberto, was a polite b.s. artist, and the other, P.J. Bingo, was an insulting b.s. artist. But its the same stink. They have no truth in them. They don't want to DEBATE the real issues, they want to OBSCURE the real issues. While I admit theres a certain pleasure in using them for target practise and blowing big holes in their hot air balloons, after a certain point it gets to be an exercize in futility. Its like trying to get an honest answer from a compulsive liar. My point is: we need to learn to make quick meat of these b.s. artists, expose them for what they are, and then hoot them off the stage of public opinion. Because time is getting short. Keep in mind, these b.s. artists know they don't need to win the debate; all they need to do is stall for time, confuse as many people as possible with their b.s., and throw as many monkey wrenches into our plans as they can. And then, 20 years from now, so many illegal immigrants will have flooded into the country that it'll be beyond the point of no return and we won't be able to repair the damage to our country. For that reason alone, we can't waste any time with these trolls and b.s. artists.

They can't argue with us over the facts, with common sense and honest logic: because, quite frankly, our level of Mass Immigration -- both illegal and legal -- is INSANE. And the destructive effects of this madness on the American body is so obvious, that the ones who don't see it -- like this Roberto troll -- don't WANT to see it. Usually because its in their own limited self-interests not to see it. So why waste time leading a horse (full of manure) to water.....

That said, I'm going to summarize the 3 basic lines of b.s. that these b.s. artists spew, along with 3 quick possible responses. This is really their whole act, they have nothing more to offer than this. But we need to recognize these 3 lines of b.s. immediately and make quick work of the b.s. artists:

1.) "Immigration is the American tradition." B.S.! America has never allowed any where NEAR the level of Mass Immigration we're presently allowing. We've always had fixed immigration quotas as well as all sorts of restrictions as to who we would or wouldn't let into this country.

2.) "You're racists and xenophobic." B.S.! If protecting and controlling our borders is "racist," then every nation under the sun is "racist." As for "xenophobia," we've let more foreigners flood into our country over the last 30 years than any nation in history! By that definition, we've been the LEAST xenophobic nation in history. Which shows you just how bogus the xenophobia charge is.

3.) "Mass immigration and our exploding population growth has been a benefit to American society and increased our standard of living." B'S.! This charge is so full of B.S. it doesn't even warrant a response. I'd just steer our detractors to the THOUSANDS of threads on this site that point out the devestating and obvious negative effects that illegal immigation is having on our country, economically, culturally, socially, and by any OTHER barometer that you wish to measure the effect by.

And in my opinion, thats as much as a response as these b.s. artists deserve. And remember: they don't want to debate the real issues; they want to obscure the real issues.

Acebackwords,
That is why I dont bother talking with most of them. I honestly have better things to do.

I don't think ignoring these b.s. artists is necessarily the way to go. For they are pushing their b.s. on the public in massive dollups and doing whatever they can to obscure the real issues and the real debate. What I'm reccomending is more in the lines of developing quick and ruthless "sound bite" responses, that immediately expose the line of b.s. and then nullifies its effect. Like when they say "We're just coming here looking for a better life," I immediately respond: "If you want a better life then why don't you build your OWN better countries instead of attaching yourself to the country WE built." And, as for as I'm concerned, thats all that needs to be said in response to that one. But I think its important that WE start defining the parameters of the debate, not the B.S. artists.

Originally Posted by Acebackwords

We recently had two b.s. artists on this site. One of them, Roberto, was a polite b.s. artist, and the other, P.J. Bingo, was an insulting b.s. artist. But its the same stink. They have no truth in them. They don't want to DEBATE the real issues, they want to OBSCURE the real issues. While I admit theres a certain pleasure in using them for target practise and blowing big holes in their hot air balloons, after a certain point it gets to be an exercize in futility. Its like trying to get an honest answer from a compulsive liar. My point is: we need to learn to make quick meat of these b.s. artists, expose them for what they are, and then hoot them off the stage of public opinion. Because time is getting short. Keep in mind, these b.s. artists know they don't need to win the debate; all they need to do is stall for time, confuse as many people as possible with their b.s., and throw as many monkey wrenches into our plans as they can. And then, 20 years from now, so many illegal immigrants will have flooded into the country that it'll be beyond the point of no return and we won't be able to repair the damage to our country. For that reason alone, we can't waste any time with these trolls and b.s. artists.

They can't argue with us over the facts, with common sense and honest logic: because, quite frankly, our level of Mass Immigration -- both illegal and legal -- is INSANE. And the destructive effects of this madness on the American body is so obvious, that the ones who don't see it -- like this Roberto troll -- don't WANT to see it. Usually because its in their own limited self-interests not to see it. So why waste time leading a horse (full of manure) to water.....

That said, I'm going to summarize the 3 basic lines of b.s. that these b.s. artists spew, along with 3 quick possible responses. This is really their whole act, they have nothing more to offer than this. But we need to recognize these 3 lines of b.s. immediately and make quick work of the b.s. artists:

1.) "Immigration is the American traditions." B.S.! America has never allowed any where NEAR the level of Mass Immigration we're presently allowing. We've always had fixed immigration quotas as well as all sorts of restrictions as to who we would or wouldn't let into this country.

2.) "You're racists and xenophobic." B.S.! If protecting and controlling our borders is "racist," then every nation under the sun is "racist." As for "xenophobia," we've let more foreigners flood into our country over the last 30 years than any nation in history! By that definition, we've been the LEAST xenophobic nation in history. Which shows you just how bogus the xenophobia charge is.

3.) "Mass immigration and our exploding population growth has been a benefit to American society and increased our standard of living." B'S.! This charge is so full of B.S. it doesn't even warrant a response. I'd just steer our detractors to the THOUSANDS of threads on this site that point out the devestating and obvious negative effects that illegal immigation is having on our country, economically, culturally, socially, and by any OTHER barometer that you wish to measure the effect by.

And in my opinion, thats as much as a response as these b.s. artists deserve. And remember: they don't want to debate the real issues; they want to obscure the real issues.

I would agree that we wasted way too much time on Roberto and bingo. A polite fellow Robert was but I don't think he had ANY intent to genuinely debate or reason with us. It was all about a smoke screen and hitting a moving target. You didn't know if he was coming or going until later on when nothing he said made any sense. It was just all BS. It is my desire to make it short and sweet in my future responses to these artists. They are not here for positive result only to have some fun with us on their part. Roberto took a layer of my politeness off and sharpened my shooting skills. If he ever shows back up here and I see him, the cross hairs will be upon him and he will know it.

hi Straight Shooter. Yeah, I pretty much agree with what you say. It could be that I'm just jaded and out of patience with these b.s. artists. I've been debating the immigration issue in the public prints for the last 15 years, and I haven't heard anything new from our detractors in, oh, about 14 years, 11 months, and 2 weeks. its just the same old b.s. from them. You're right, its mostly just a "smokescreen." We respond endlessly to THEIR criticisms (i.e. "No I'm not racist or xenophobic and now let me waste an hour trying to prove it to somebody who doesn't even WANT to listen or consider what I'm saying." or "No, theres nothing odd or bizarre about wanting to protect our national borders, EVERY country does it, and those that don't don't remain a country for very long.") And THEY never respond to all the points WE make. So the hell with them. We need to make quick meat of them, because we're battling against the clock. All THEY need to do is stall for time to win the battle.

But this is just my opinion, my approach. And I'm open to criticism as to the effectiveness of my approach. Its possible I turn off as many people as I win over with my "harsh" and "jarring" style.

I would agree that these people may have been 'planted' here to observe and participate in some discussions.
I know it, you know it, but it takes us all into a different plane of thought and reaction. It can be a great stress-relief. We need to vent, and these people get us on a roll. Right?
But at the same time we are venting, we have to remember to be cool.

Personally I think NO RESPONSE is the BEST RESPONSE.

Here's one Ace: Common BS; They do the jobs Americans won't do.

Answer; They are doing the jobs Americans can't afford to do, because at the real cost of living in America, with no benefits, and no welfare state to cover the parts of my life, 5 bucks an hour isn't going very far.

There is no way on earth anyone but a teenager living at home, with his parents, could take these jobs. In fact, isn't that what teenagers used to do to make money?

No disrespect to people doing the jobs(even though they may be illegal) Having a grown man of some 45 years(that cannot converse with you, or worse, fakes that he can't) raking leaves for a living is NOT the mark of greatness in a nation.

So the short and snappy is; They do the jobs Americans cannot afford to do. Think of the morality of that. What, can't see any?
cheers glenn

Yeah, I like that one, Natual Glenn. Thats exactly the kind of thing I think we need to develop. Quick responses that cuts the b.s. off at the source before it can spread. I disagree with the "no response is a good response" idea. Our detractors have been spreading their hooey far and wide, and I believe we need to challenge it, expose it, and nullify it, as quickly as possible. What I'm suggesting is akin to what trial lawyers do. They spend a large part of their energy before the trial even starts fighting over what evidence is admissable or not. Thats half the battle right there: defining the parameters of the debate. We can't let these b.s. artists define the illegal immigation issue.

I'll give you an example of defining the debate. In the liberal Bay Area, the media here for YEARS has defined the illegal immigration debate as: "You're either for endless Mass Immigration or else you're a xenophobic nazi racist." Its not surprising they won every debate since they stacked the deck in their favor. But now, I've re-defined the debate as: "Our level of Mass Immigration is INSANE. If you're for it, can you possibly explain the insanity of your thinking to me?"

Originally Posted by Acebackwords

Yeah, I like that one, Natual Glenn. Thats exactly the kind of thing I think we need to develop. Quick responses that cuts the b.s. off at the source before it can spread. I disagree with the "no response is a good response" idea. Our detractors have been spreading their hooey far and wide, and I believe we need to challenge it, expose it, and nullify it, as quickly as possible. What I'm suggesting is akin to what trial lawyers do. They spend a large part of their energy before the trial even starts fighting over what evidence is admissable or not. Thats half the battle right there: defining the parameters of the debate. We can't let these b.s. artists define the illegal immigation issue.

I'll give you an example of defining the debate. In the liberal Bay Area, the media here for YEARS has defined the illegal immigration debate as: "You're either for endless Mass Immigration or else you're a xenophobic nazi racist." Its not surprising they won every debate since they stacked the deck in their favor. But now, I've re-defined the debate as: "Our level of Mass Immigration is INSANE. If you're for it, can you possibly explain the insanity of your thinking to me?"

I agree. We can't allow a 'no response' on our part. We got to shoot'em down when they pop their little heads up. I don't mean target practice either. I mean hit the target the first time and be done with it. A 'no response' is taken as truth on their part when everyone knows it is BS.

We've been too nice too long on those BS artists.