Thread: Dream Act : Why it won't, and how it could...

I decided to post this because it is the same old canard that the pro-open border socialists lobby always seem to pull - we disagree with them, we are racists. We are uncaring. We are selfish etc...

But the problem arises when you can't have an intelligent conversation with them around "what is proper" and "what is right" with this whole -Dream- fiasco.

It seems that whenever Reid or Pelosi get a hold of a bill it becomes a monstrosity of special interest handouts and backroom dealings. The people do not trust Pelosi or Reid, yet these dreamers put all their faith into these two crooks. So, what do they get? Crap served on cowdung plate.

There are soooo many caveats in the bill with gotcha phrases and the bill would serve un-educated, under-performers MORE than the actual dreamers who want the bill. Yet, the dreamers are tied up into the same ol' rhetoric so they can't divest themselves from our true intent.

All they have to do is the following and the Dream Act WOULD pass easily, imho.

* no special wording, no gotcha phrases or conditionals, just the following *

Any illegal immigrant who obtains a bachelors degree from an accredited university or accredited state college in the United States by 2019 (or before) AND entered the country illegally before they were of age 15 can be eligible for the Dream Act.

The contingency is on the accredited degree.

The illegal immigrant would not be eligible for any federal aid.

Any illegal immigrant who faithfully serves in the United States military for at least 6 years of active duty can be eligible for the Dream Act.

In all cases, the laws of the land (including immigration) will take precedence during the illegal immigrants time in the United States. In other words, an illegal immigrant cannot use their current status to fullfill the obligations of the Dream Act as a basis to circumvent immigration laws.


********************************

The above would capture the previous, current and a stretch of a few years of "dreamers". IT would prevent subsidization because of the 2019 cap year. So, there wouldn't be an incentive to come for the amnesty.

But no citizenship. They're here for economic reasons primarily and if given the right to vote will simply vote themselves a general amnesty and more benefits.

No, I would fight that just as hard.

They are illegal, they broke the law, they deserve nothing.

I'm not even fazed by the excuse of being brought here as a kid. That doesn't matter. Look at the laws of today, a Judge ruled a 4 year old can be sued. You can send a child to a collection agency if a parent doesn't pay a bill in their name, etc.

Here is what I would offer. You got one year to get out. You are free to sell whatever possessions you have or take them with you. If you leave, you can sign up to come here the legal way, provided you were never caught committing any OTHER (coming here illegally is a crime in itself) crime. I say caught because we all "know" what crimes they commit to stay here, i.e. identity theft, etc.

No excuses, no exceptions. Scare to return home? Then do something about it. Instead of trying to turn the US into the junk hole you came from, turn your country into the US.

Originally Posted by ReggieMay

But no citizenship. They're here for economic reasons primarily and if given the right to vote will simply vote themselves a general amnesty and more benefits.

I agree with you here. But lets take the road of the devils advocate. Will an educated immigrant granted citizenship vote for more "welfare" etc..?

The goal, I presume, is to bring educated people in.

I am a staunch anti-illegal immigrant person so I am trying to see if having only the EDUCATED illegals granted citizenship, how that would hurt us.

I completely understand that if you let the horde in, open the gates, they will all vote for freebies, and more welfare and pretty much a dissolution of the United States. I really do. But these are the uneducated, the easily manipulated by the liberals etc...

Would those who serve in the military, bachelors have this same "nanny state - give me give me" mentality?

I have been hearing some interviews of these "dreamers" and they seem VERY communistic, like the "state owes them". WE owe them, and that is a complete turn-off. As it stands, I am completely and totally against them.

But I dont' know if that idealogy is sprung from their indoctrination of them being "victims" or not. So, the question arises (for me), if they are working towards a goal and they know they must of achieve it with "set in stone" conditionals, then there is no "victim" - they are the masters of their destiny. They can't be manipulated by the open-borders/socialististic special interests.

Seems that would breed self-sufficiency... and not dependancy.

your thoughts?

Very good points Emanon. However, these students most likely have many, many relatives that are not educated, including their parents. After being granted citizenship, they can sponsor anyone in their family, mother, father, uncles, aunts, brothers, etc. Will they vote for more benefits, absolutely, but they may be in different areas - free education and special treatment under our laws, for precisely the reason you mentioned, their entitled attitude. If you think these "students" are making demands now, just wait until they are granted legal status.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw32fiasUSs

Oh! yeah! forgot this.

I made this list using all Alipac's information. This list works fast and works good when you get to the bottom, you can start back at the top it's fast!

Check this list out I call it "QUICKSILVER!"
This list is good for cell phone users punch #no. hit call, phone saves #no.
and just keep DRILLIN' BABY!
These are Alipac' targeted house members.
BRIGHT 202 225 2901 DOTHAM,AL.36303
BARROW 202 225 2823 AUGUSTA,GA.30901
MARSHALL 202 225 6531 MACON,GA.31201
CHILDERS 202 225 4306 TUPELO,MS.38804
KRATOVIL 202 225 5311 CENTEREVILLE,MD.21617
MURPHY 202 225 2301 BRISTOL,PA.19007
NYE 202 225 4215 VIRGINIA BEACH,VA.23462
HILL 202 225 5315 JEFFERSONVILLE,IN.47130
MATHESON 202 225 3011 PRICE,UT.84501
DAVIS 202 225 2665 TUSCALOOSA,AL.35401
DONNELLY 202 225 3915 KOKOMO,IN.46901
ELLSWORTH 202 225 4636 EVANSVILLE,IN.47708
HERSETH 202 225 2801 SIOUX FALL,SD.57103
KLEIN 202 225 3026 BOCA RATON,FL.33431
SIMPSON 202 225 5531 BOISE,ID.83702
BIGGERT 202 225 3515 WILLOWBROOK,IL.60527
KANJORSKI 202 225 6511 SCRANTON,PA.18503
KISSELL 202 225 3715 CONCORD,NC.28027
KOSMAS 202 225 2706 ORLANDO,FL.32826
GORDON 202 225 4231 COOKEVILLE,TN.38501
VISCLOSKY 202 225 2461 MERRILLVILLE,IN.46410
KAGEN 202 225 5665 APPLETON,WI.54911
ARCURI 202 225 3665 AUBURN,NY.13021
SPACE 202 225 6265 DOVER,OH.44622
STUPAK 202 225 4735 ALPENA,MI.49707
ADLER 202 225 4765 TOMS RIVER,NJ.08753
BISHOP 202 225 3826 CORAM,NY.11727
BOCCIERI 202 225 3876 CANTON,OH.44702
BOSWELL 202 225 3806 DES MOINES,IA.50309
CONNOLLY 202 225 1492 WOODBRIDGE,VA.22192
COOPER 202 225 4311 NASHVILLE,TN.37219
COSTELLO 202 225 5661 BELLEVILL,IL.62221
BEAN 202 225 3711 SPRINGFIELD,IL.62703
HOLDEN 202 225 5546 TEMPE,AZ.
DRIEHAUS 202 225 2216 CINCINNATI,OH.45202
ETHERRIDGE 202 225 4513 CLAYTON,NC.27520
FOSTER 202 225 2976 DIXON,IL.61021
GIFFORD 202 225 2542 TUCSON,AZ.85732
HALL 202 225 5441 CARMEL,NY.10512
HALVORSON 202 225 3635 JOLIET,IL.60432
HIMES 202 225 5541 BRIDGEPORT,CT.06604
HODES 202 225 5206 KEENE,NH.03431
KILDEE 202 225 3611 FLINT,MI.48502
KILROY 202 225 2015 COLUMBUS,OH.43212
KIRKPATRICK 202 225 2315 PRESCOTT,AZ.86303
LARSON 202 225 2265 HARTFORD,CT.06106
LIPINSKY 202 225 5701 LAGRANGE,IL.60525
LOEBSACK 202 225 6576 IOWA CITY,IA.52240
MICHAUD 202 225 6306 BANGOR,ME.04401
MITCHELL 202 225 2190 SCOTTSDALE,AZ.85251
OBERSTAR 202 225 6211 DULUTH,MN.55802
PETERS 202 225 5802 TROY,MI.48084
POMEROY 202 225 2611 BISMARCK,ND.58501
RUPPERBERGER 202 225 3061 TIMONIUM,MD.21093
SCHAUER 202 225 6276 JACKSON,MI.49202
SCHWARTZ 202 225 6111 PHILADELPHIA,PA.19135
SCOTT 202 225 2939 JONESBORO,GA.30236
SHEA-PORTER 202 225 5456 ROCHESTER,NH.03866
SKELTON 202 225 2876 LEBANON,MO.65536
SPRATT 202 225 5501 ROCK HILL,SC.29730
TANNER 202 225 4714 JACKSON,TN.38301
TEAGUE 202 225 2365 HOBBS,NM.88240
TITUS 202 225 3252 LOS VEGAS,NV.89123
VANHOLLEN 202 225 5341 ROCKVILLE,MD.20850
WALZ 202 225 2472 ROCHESTER,MN.55901
WILSON 202 225 5705 IRONTON,OH.44406
YARMUTH 202 225 5401 LOUISVILLE,KY.40202 voted no in past
SHERMAN 202 225 5911 SHERMAN OAKS,CA.91403
BISHOP 202 225 3631 ALBANY,GA.31701
BOYD 202 225 5235 TALLAHASSEE,FL.32317
Senate List:
BARRASSO 202 224 6441 CASPER,WY.82602
BINGAMAN 202 224 5521 SACRAMENTO,CA.95834
BROWN,SC. 202 224 4543 BOSTON,MA02203
BROWN,SH. 202 224 2315 CLEVELAND,OH.44114
CANTWELL 202 224 3441 SEATTLE,WA.98174
CARDIN 202 224 4524 BALTIMORE,MD.21201
CARPER 202 224 2441 DOVER,DE.19904
CASEY 202 224 6324 SCRANTON,PA.18503
CONRAD 202 224 2043 MINOT,ND.58701
CORKER 202 224 3344 NASHVILLE,TN.37203
ENSIGN 202 224 6244 RENO,NV.89501
FEINSTEIN 202 224 3841 FRESNO,CA.93721
GILLIBRAND 202 224 4451 NEW YORK,NY 10017
HATCH 202 224 5251 PROVO,UT84601
HUTCHISON 202 224 5922 ABILENE,TX.79602
KLOBACHAR 202 224 3244 MINNEAPOLIS,MN.55415
KOHL 202 224 5653 MILUAKEE,WI.53203
KYL 202 224 4521 TUCSON,AZ.85704
LIEBERMAN 202 224 4041 HARTFORD,CT.06103
LUGAR 202 224 4814 EVANSVILLE,IN.47708
MANCHIN 202 224 3954 CHARLESTON,WV.25304
McCASKILL 202 224 6154 COLUMBIA,MO.63703
MENENDEZ 202 224 4744 NEWARK,NJ.07102
NELSON,BEN 202 224 6551 OMAHA,NE.68154
NELSON,BILL 202 224 5274 TAMPA,FL.33602
SANDERS 202 224 5141 BRATTLEBORO,VT.05301
SNOWE 202 224 5344 AUGUSTA,ME.04330
STABENOW 202 224 4822 DETROIT,MI.48226
TESTER 202 224 2644 HELENA,MT.59601
WEBB 202 224 4024 NORTON,VA.24273
WHITEHOUSE 202 224 2921 PROVIDENCE,RI.02903
WICKER 202 224 6253 JACKSON,MS.39201
BAUCAS 202 224 2651 BOZEMAN,MT.59715
BROWNBACK 202 224 2523 WICHITA,KS.67209
COLLINS 202 224 2523 LEWISTON,ME.04240
DORGAN 202 224 2551 FARGO,ND.58106
LANDRIEU 202 224 5825 BATON ROUGE,LA70801
MURKOWSKI 202 224 6665 FAIRBANKS,AK.99701
PRYOR 202 224 2353 LITTLEROCK,AR.72201
DANIEL 202 224 6361 HONOLULU,HI.96850

And there's still time to use it!

Are there good Dreamers, that really love America and want to be Americans and are loyal to America first and foremost? Yes, but they are few and far between.

I have followed many of their blogs and what I have found is that most are selfish and are only concerned with themselves. They take no responsibility for their parents or even their own actions. They live in a world of denial and blaming everyone else for their predictiment.

They honestly believe that they are entitled. They honestly believe their parents pay the same taxes as American citizens, so they are entitled to education and all benefits.

They have found loopholes and ways to work the system. Anything that is a misdeamenor is ok.

There is no open debate. They believe all the lies that activist groups spout to them, and if anyone else tries to enlighten them they are automatically called a racist or redneck.

They have gotten away for to long without any consequences for their actions. I am afraid they are going to be lead into violance by activist groups.

It's called strong arm robbery!

If it were ture, that their parents pay the same taxes, why do they get instate tuition? If they are EQUAL to American students, then they should get no special treatment. Why do minorities get special treatment anyway. Everybody is created EQUAL. They should get no special treatment.