Thread: E Trace gives Mexico and Cartels Your Personal Information

Mexican "police" will now have access to American Gun owner information. The US government, specifically the ATF has given the Mexican police and other authorities access to gun owner information via the atf's etrace system. The information in this database contains names, addresses, social security numbers, phone numbers, financial data and tagged special level information. The Mexican "authority" would simply only have to indicate that a suspected firearm from the United States was used in a gun related crime to gain access to the database. This provides the corrupt Mexican government officials (read cartels) with access to United States citizens information. It is no secret the level of corruption that exists in Mexico, so one could only imagine who will be receiving the information.

The article broke in the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7193487.stm

One thing to consider that makes this move hideous is that it actually stinks of leftovers from the cooridinated set of amnesty and amnesty related legislations that were expected to be snuck thru this past year.

The ATF supposedly mounted a privacy impact study, which shockingly doesn't mention much about citizen safety, but does acknowledge how misuse of information could jeopardize an investigation. Now Cartels will have access to your information.

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/pia/priva ... e-pclo.pdf

In the above document the ATF even recognizes this is a threat:

...2.3 Privacy Impact Analysis: Given the amount and type of
information collected, as well as the purpose, discuss what
privacy risks were identified and how they were mitigated.
If this information is accessed by a non-law enforcement individual, it could jeopardize an ongoing
criminal investigation and cause personal injury to law enforcement personnel, cooperating
individuals and witnesses.. For the most part, however, privacy risks are minimal due to the fact that
eTrace accounts are given to cleared ATF employees and law enforcement agencies that have entered into
an MOU with ATF. In accordance with applicable appropriations laws, eTrace users can only access
trace data that originated from their agency. In addition, the eTrace system includes the standard HTTP
Level banner on the bottom of each web page which reads, “You have entered an Official United States
Government System, which may be used only for authorized purposes....

That banner will have the Cartels shaking in their boots!

We have to consider one very disturbing factor which is the fact that most of the crimes committed in Mexico are with fully automatic weapons, which would require a class 3 license and tons of paper work and tax stamps here in the US. Some American selling a hunting rifle to someone has no guilt for participating in Mexico's corruption. This is simply a backdoor to personal information. The etrace system agreement isn't even widely adopted in the US. New Jersey barely signed a special agreement with the ATF at the end of last year and the countries other than Mexico that have access must submit information from the gun used in the crime to the ATF who does a check. So there must be a gun related crime and even then only pertinent data is released, many times an investigation will be conducted in the US without information released to the country involved- for privacy purposes! This is the case with Germany. HOwever, a barbarian country like Mexico will get open access via our consulates in Mexico with a specially modfied Spanish based system to be deployed at their "police" headquarters later!

http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/0116 ... runner.pdf

In the end giving a country like Mexico and people of the caliber of Mexicans access to a database of any sort, especially one with American names is a recipe for disaster and a violation of our liberties and rights. At least the communist Chinese have hacked our databases and stolen our information, in the case of an enemy that has the mind power of a small child we just simply hand them the information...

http://www.scmagazineus.com/China-has-p ... le/104338/

anyone who cant see we are moving toward NAU is dumb or just feels better ignoring it...

This is beyond insane, we must make this an issue, the mexican police is one of the most corrupt in the world, and we hand them over this information

Chosen: Thanks once again for digging into an important topic and shedding light on it in a thoughtful and well-researched manner. Well done.
Keep up the good work.

...Oh yeah, it goes without saying... That, is scary stuff

Thanks Phred. This scares me the more I think it about it. I cannot find any info, asking around or otherwise, that indicates even a standard procedure for obtaining information from the system. Countries like Germany and the UK use it as a submission based system, they don't even have access to the info on a direct basis and they are allied nations. It appears that there is a Spanish version of the system with Mexican contracted IT employees maintaining it!

The information in this database contains names, addresses, social security numbers, phone numbers, financial data and tagged special level information.

Great, now they can buy their fake ID's straight from the Mexican government. Names, ss#s and address will all pass the test of being correct.

I have a hard time believing this. Most of the people we are NOT to do business with are in the Middle East and Central America (Mexico included). These are government regulations. There are laws (that are enforced) in place to prevent our private information such as a Social Security number from leaving a protected area.

Personal information can ONLY be transferred across secure lines. I would be interested to hear how they actually have access to the information. Is it direct into the database or does it have to be specifically queried for specific information? If the later is the case, then it may not be a big issue. If they are capable of downloading information and storing it on uncontrolled PC's then this needs to stop right away.

I am going to dig into this a little more. You have me curious.

Since when has an American Hunter been a major issue for Mexico?

That document was created in 1996. Very weak security even for that time. However, I am sure that the security around the information has improved greatly. Let me put it to you this way...all of the technical jargon at the bottom about security and auditing, I know inside and out. If I had a development team bring this to me to secure Socials, Medical Info, or Credit card numbers I would have tossed it back at them and wouldn't allow them to move forward until they adhered to all the laws we have in place.


Personally, I wouldn't worry to much about this database. It looks like a tool for law enforcement to assist with crimes. All information pulled from the U.S Consulate in Mexico will be recorded and there are probably monitors in place to look for odd behavior. We have come a long way since 1996 in IT regarding personal information.

If anyone has any questions please IM me.

I could be wrong, but I don't think law enforcement at the city or state level have access to these databases. Anyone out there who knows for sure? I think they send the data to the feds and they run the information.

Why would Mexico need access to the database?

Originally Posted by 1_paint

I could be wrong, but I don't think law enforcement at the city or state level have access to these databases. Anyone out there who knows for sure? I think they send the data to the feds and they run the information.

Why would Mexico need access to the database?

From the BBC article it looks like it wouldn't be Mexico using the application. It would be the U.S. And my bet is that it has to do with the war on the drug cartels.

Originally Posted by 1_paint

I could be wrong, but I don't think law enforcement at the city or state level have access to these databases. Anyone out there who knows for sure? I think they send the data to the feds and they run the information.

Why would Mexico need access to the database?

It is difficult for the states to even get access. New Jersey had to sign a special agreement for database usage. And even then a crime has to have been committed.

Mexican "police officials" will have open access to the kiosks via Americna consulates in Mexico.
http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/0116 ... runner.pdf

The problem is corruption and accountability.