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  1. #1
    Senior Member steelerbabe's Avatar
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    Facts in Short Supply in 'illegal' Immigration Debate

    http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll ... 10331/1015

    Facts in short supply in 'illegal' immigration debate
    Most undocumented immigrants are here only to work. They have become victims of a system that doesn't give the same opportunities of the past.

    Originally posted on August 21, 2006

    "What part of 'illegal' don't you understand?"

    This is one of the questions I most often receive when writing about the immigration debate.

    "You are mixing the wrong apples: Illegals don't equal immigrants" is another. "Illegals are criminals."

    For some, this logic is simple:

    a) Those who break a law are criminals.

    b) Entering this country without documents is a crime.

    c) Illegal immigrants entered this country without documents, so they broke a law.

    d) Therefore, illegal immigrants are criminals. All of them. Period.

    And, as criminals, illegal immigrants deserve prison, of course.

    Or deportation, immediate and automatic.

    Or both.

    No questions asked.

    After all, they are criminals, remember?

    They should be treated like criminals.

    Meaning: Throw them into the same cells with killers, rapists, drug-traffickers and gang members.

    Unfortunately for those who think like this, it's just rhetoric, a fallacy.

    And many anti-immigration politicians who use these arguments know it.

    Criminals among us

    Every offense should receive a sentence according to the seriousness of the crime committed, because we still have laws.

    Otherwise, why should we bother with having courts and laws?

    Let's give everybody death sentences and get it over with, once and for all.

    Good riddance.

    Which brings me to my point: Yes, illegal immigration is a crime. But not a serious, life-threatening felony.

    In fact, almost all of us could be considered criminals.

    In today's increasingly government-controlled and overregulated civilization, everybody has committed (or will commit) an offense, no matter how insignificant.

    For one, I am a criminal.

    Back in 1997, I sped 10 miles an hour over the limit on a Texas freeway.

    I was caught by a police officer, who handed me the corresponding ticket: $150 (which I paid in full on time).

    Months later, I got a second ticket after the parking meter where my car was parked expired — $20 more.

    So, I guess this qualifies me as a criminal. Twice.

    Do you jaywalk or don't like to buckle up?

    Then you are you a criminal, too. Following this same logic, practically all of us (everybody older than 4 years old) are criminals.

    We live in a world of criminals.

    It's economics

    Now, this is dangerous terrain.

    Politicians and extremist groups have turned illegal immigration into a political crisis.

    But it's not: It's just economics, plain and simple.

    As long as better-paid jobs are available in the United States, Mexicans and everybody else will risk anything to come.

    Especially if American employers are willing to take a blind eye to fake Social Security cards.

    It's a supply-and-demand issue.

    That immigrant who just crossed the border yesterday doesn't have a hidden agenda to overthrow the American Way of Life. He just wants to work.

    Now, I understand the concern of Americans about immigrants bypassing all the visa procedures.

    But, have you ever tried to get a visa to the U.S.?

    It's virtually impossible, especially if you are poor.

    Some Americans seem to forget this when they argue: "But my ancestors were legal immigrants. That's a big difference. They never broke any law by coming here."

    (Real meaning: My immigrants are better — or more respected, or more civilized, or more honest — than yours. Who happen to be ... well, "criminals.")

    Granted, most of those immigrants of the past came here legally, opposite from today's immigrants.

    Give them a chance

    But let's think it over for a moment, to put things in context: There were virtually no illegal immigrants before the early 20th century.

    All of them were "refugees."

    Social Security cards were given away to everybody.

    Even cereal premiums were harder to get.

    Border Patrol agents used to give green cards away like candies at the crossing checkpoints. Mexicans who did the trip back and forth every day had the luxury of rejecting their offers. "Why would I want to live in the U.S. if I can come and go anytime I need?" was a common answer to "Migra" officers until the 1950s.

    Some elderly in Mexico still remember today.

    What requirements did those immigrants of the past have to fulfill to make their American Dream come true?

    • Pass a health exam. (How many of those 19th-century "healthy" immigrants could be considered so by today's standards?)

    • Show some proof of identity, like birth certificates or foreign passports (untranslated, of course, and with no security bar codes).

    • Demonstrate not being an idiot.

    • Stand in line to wait for their turn.

    And that was pretty much it.

    No mountains of applications filled (with their corresponding copies), no letters of support, no criminal backgrounds, no aggressive interview processes, no hundreds of dollars in fees, no post-9/11 security paranoia ... like today.

    How many of those respected and well-regarded immigrants from the past would be able to pass all the requirements imposed today by Uncle Sam to their "tired, poor, and huddled masses?"

    I am sure most of them would be flat-out rejected.

    And instead of Mexicans or Latin Americans jumping fences at the border, we would see tides of Italians, Polish, Germans and Irish coming in rafts.

    Thus, they would also be "criminals."

    We live in a different time.

    This is why it's unfair to ask others "not to mix the wrong apples" on the immigration debate, while we keep doing so for our own purposes.

    Now, don't get me wrong: I am not defending illegal immigration, per se.

    I think illegal immigration hurts everybody, especially immigrants themselves.

    They are the victims on this complex problem.

    Most Latino immigrants come to work hard, and would love to do it legally ... if they were given the chance.

    They desire to be like past immigrants who once were fortunate enough to get theirs.

    — Fernando Zapata is the editor of Gaceta Tropical, The News-Press' Spanish-language publication. E-mail him at fzapata@news-press.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member sippy's Avatar
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    Most undocumented immigrants are here only to work. They have become victims of a system that doesn't give the same opportunities of the past
    Illegal aliens are the victims? I THINK NOT!!! The American people are the victim!
    Funny, the facts today are that the system gives them more opportunities than of the past.
    "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results is the definition of insanity. " Albert Einstein.

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    Senior Member steelerbabe's Avatar
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    I should have put a warning label - take blood pressure medicine before reading this post

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    Senior Member Sailor's Avatar
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    They are criminals and it's way past time to start applying our immigration laws!!
    "Send them Back." "Build a damn wall and be done with it."
    Janis McDonald, Research Specialist, University of Pittsburg, 2006

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    MW
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    But, have you ever tried to get a visa to the U.S.?

    It's virtually impossible, especially if you are poor.
    What a flaming idiot! This individual is obviously an open border advocate. He feels we should have no control over who, and how many, people we allow into the country. There is a reason it's hard for the poor to get a visa to the United States - it's because the majority of the poor folks on a temporary visa will not return to their home country when the visa expires. Why should they - they're riding the gravy train here!

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    So many people try to make the case that illegal immigration is victimless. It is not. Many Americans lose their jobs altogether or have their wages suppressed. Many sit for hours and hours in emergency rooms when they need emergency medical care because the emergency rooms are flooded by people who should not be here in the first place. Many hospitals close due to the financial burden. Our schools are overwhelmed with children of illegal aliens, further draining their limited resources. Many Americans have had their identities stolen by illegal aliens, creating havoc in their lives and ruining their credit ratings. Many have been victims of violent or other crimes. Most of all, illegal immigration takes a large financial toll on every taxpayer. This is theft of resources that should be spent on citizens of this country.

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    Thanks Kate - you were pursuing my same line of reasoning here too...

    Which brings me to my point: Yes, illegal immigration is a crime. But not a serious, life-threatening felony.
    some people may differ in that view:
    http://www.immigrationshumancost.org
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    And, after a quick second reading, I have discovered that the author is quite out of touch with reality on the subject matter. Re:

    No mountains of applications filled (with their corresponding copies), no letters of support, no criminal backgrounds, no aggressive interview processes, no hundreds of dollars in fees, no post-9/11 security paranoia ... like today.
    Hundreds of dollars....???? To process a VISA - maybe.
    For eventual Green Card, application for permanent residency, and later citizenship - thousands, several thousands are usually required (immigration attorneys have to make a living somehow). I know someone that just finished the process, and yes, it is time-consuming, tedious and expensive.

    My question to Mr. Zapata (the author): did you ever consider that it is not easy for a reason?
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    MW
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    I'm sorry, but this article really pisses me off. I feel compelled to respond to a few more of the authors outrageous comments!

    Which brings me to my point: Yes, illegal immigration is a crime. But not a serious, life-threatening felony.
    Tell that to the thousands whom have drowned in the Rio Grande River and the deserts! Tell that to the many poor U.S. citizens (many Hispanic-Americans & African-Americans) that have been displaced in the job market. These folks have children to feed and families to care for. Tell that to the many U.S. citizens that have died at the hands of illegal immigrants (DUI, murder, drug overdoses, etc.). The author of this article needs to get a clue!

    For one, I am a criminal.

    Back in 1997, I sped 10 miles an hour over the limit on a Texas freeway.

    I was caught by a police officer, who handed me the corresponding ticket: $150 (which I paid in full on time).

    Months later, I got a second ticket after the parking meter where my car was parked expired — $20 more.

    So, I guess this qualifies me as a criminal. Twice.
    You paid for your transgressions through a pre-determined fine. This has been determined to be an acceptable punishment for your crime. What a hypocrite your are. You admit that you were forced to pay for your crime, yet you advocate forgiveness for the crime of illegal immigration. Actually, if I read you correctly, you are advocating for a reward system (amnesty) for those that commited the crime of illegal immigration, social security fraud, and whatever other crime an illegal has commited. Oh, and for the record, the Senate S. 2611 Bill does afford us the opportunity to fine illegal immigrants, but then it goes on to grant them amnesty. So basically, we make them pay a penalty and then we reward them for paying the penalty. I don't know about the rest of you, but something about that doesn't make sense to me!

    As long as better-paid jobs are available in the United States, Mexicans and everybody else will risk anything to come.
    Okay, shouldn't we do whatever is necessary to stop them? What I'm hearing from the author is that it's useless to make any attempt at stopping those whom would illegally enter our country.

    That immigrant who just crossed the border yesterday doesn't have a hidden agenda to overthrow the American Way of Life. He just wants to work.
    The immigrant may, or may, not not have a hidden agenda (each one is different), but the fact remains that the end result is what the American people are concerned with. In other words, the intentions of the illegal is not what's important, it's the end results of their actions that count.

    But let's think it over for a moment, to put things in context: There were virtually no illegal immigrants before the early 20th century.

    All of them were "refugees."

    Social Security cards were given away to everybody.
    Those were different times and the population of the United States was a lot less (we were a growing nation). This is a situation where the status quo is not acceptable. Times change and if we don't change with them, we'll suffer for it. Controlled population wasn't a concern over 100 years ago when when our country had less than 1/3 of its current population.

    What requirements did those immigrants of the past have to fulfill to make their American Dream come true?

    • Pass a health exam. (How many of those 19th-century "healthy" immigrants could be considered so by today's standards?)

    • Show some proof of identity, like birth certificates or foreign passports (untranslated, of course, and with no security bar codes).

    • Demonstrate not being an idiot.

    • Stand in line to wait for their turn.

    And that was pretty much it.

    No mountains of applications filled (with their corresponding copies), no letters of support, no criminal backgrounds, no aggressive interview processes, no hundreds of dollars in fees, no post-9/11 security paranoia ... like today.

    How many of those respected and well-regarded immigrants from the past would be able to pass all the requirements imposed today by Uncle Sam to their "tired, poor, and huddled masses?"

    I am sure most of them would be flat-out rejected.
    Once again the author is completely ignoring the fact that the situation and times have changed. I'll bet a speeding ticket didn't cost you $150 back in 1940 and I know a gallon of gas didn't cost $3.00. Further, many of our laws have changed, new ones been created, and some have been dissolved. My point is, things change with time and immigration needs, laws, and requirements are no different.

    Now, don't get me wrong: I am not defending illegal immigration, per se.

    I think illegal immigration hurts everybody, especially immigrants themselves.

    They are the victims on this complex problem.
    You are a liar and are defending illegal immigration. No, the illegals are not the only victims here. Actually, I'm not even sure they are victims. With the exception of the sex slaves that were forcefully smuggled into the country, all other illegals came of their own free-will. This my friend makes it hard for me to see them as victims - we are the ones being victimized by them and our PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS!

    This entire article is B.S.! The author keeps comparing the illegal immigrants of today to the many immigrants who came here 50-100-150-200 years ago. During those times we were building a nation. Many of the "legal" immigrants from years past toiled on farms, languished in factories, and struggled in small mom & pop businesses. Now that the nation has matured and grown prosperous - these illegals want to come in and take advantage of what our ancestors have toiled, languished, and struggled for. Furthermore, they know a gravy train when they see it. That's why so many of them come here to purposely have anchor babies (as many as possible).

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  10. #10
    Senior Member LegalUSCitizen's Avatar
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    Oh brother....this is so rediculous it doesn't make me mad at all. I'm laughing.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

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