Thread: Fire Coalition Events sanctioned ?

Personally, I don't believe showing up necessarily equates to supporting F.I.R.E. There will be other groups and guest speakers participating in the event too. Perhaps there are some folks that just want to listen to what the guest speakers (political candidates) have to say. William makes some excellent points and has every reason to doubt the sincerity of F.I.R.E leadership. However, I'm sure there are a lot of great people that are part of the organization too (folks like you and I that are in membership).

For the folks that do decide to go, please leave your ALIPAC tee-shirts at home.

Originally Posted by MW

Personally, I don't believe showing up necessarily equates to supporting F.I.R.E. There will be other groups and guest speakers participating in the event too. Perhaps there are some folks that just want to listen to what the guest speakers (political candidates) have to say. William makes some excellent points and has every reason to doubt the sincerity of F.I.R.E leadership. However, I'm sure there are a lot of great people that are part of the organization too (folks like you and I that are in membership).

For the folks that do decide to go, please leave your ALIPAC tee-shirts at home.

I don't just doubt the sincerity of the FIRE leadership, Ive watched them move in close and knife several others in this movement as well as ALIPAC.

You are going to their event. The lack of loyalty is noted and the lack of appreciation for efforts to protect the movement from further harm is also noted.

I guess you can just pray that it is not a setup.

Oh, and by the way, the political candidates are not coming because they cannot afford to be associated with League of the South if they want to win.

W

William wrote:

You are going to their event. The lack of loyalty is noted and the lack of appreciation for efforts to protect the movement from further harm is also noted.

Whoa, you're jumping to conclusions. I did not say I would be in attendance, nor do I believe my comments infer a lack of loyalty to ALIPAC.

Oh, and by the way, the political candidates are not coming because they cannot afford to be associated with League of the South if they want to win.

The original information that was disseminated on the event stated the following:

It will be a day long event, with speeches by political candidates for Gov., Lt Gov., Senate and House members, Superintendent of Public Instruction, Supreme Court Justice, leaders of National Immigration Enforcement groups and local dignitaries. Local news media will be covering the event.

Perhaps the above is just a wish list. I do find it odd that they didn't list the guest speakers by name.

I'm not necessarily against you on this, William. However, I do feel people need to make their own choices in such matters. For the record, I'm not a member of F.I.R.E., nor do a visit their website regularly (visited it once last year) or follow their activities.

Originally Posted by MW

William wrote:

You are going to their event. The lack of loyalty is noted and the lack of appreciation for efforts to protect the movement from further harm is also noted.

Whoa, you're jumping to conclusions. I did not say I would be in attendance, nor do I believe my comments infer a lack of loyalty to ALIPAC.

[quote:85p81ge0]Oh, and by the way, the political candidates are not coming because they cannot afford to be associated with League of the South if they want to win.

The original information that was disseminated on the event stated the following:

It will be a day long event, with speeches by political candidates for Gov., Lt Gov., Senate and House members, Superintendent of Public Instruction, Supreme Court Justice, leaders of National Immigration Enforcement groups and local dignitaries. Local news media will be covering the event.

Perhaps the above is just a wish list. I do find it odd that they didn't list the guest speakers by name.

I'm not necessarily against you on this, William. However, I do feel people need to make their own choices in such matters. For the record, I'm not a member of F.I.R.E., nor do a visit their website regularly (visited it once last year) or follow their activities. [/quote:85p81ge0]

Everyone is free to make up their own minds, but if FIRE has invited and is allowing League of the South to back the rally as reported and lawmakers and candidates show up they are in deep political crap!

As this event is described it is a trap and lawmakers favorable to our cause are about to get burned if they show up.

Any political opposition is going to have a field day with them if they show and radical groups are present.

We have come a long way in NC from where we were when ALIPAC was formed. I consider many of these lawmakers and candidates to be friends.

Each time FIRE has been involved with anything I have been involved with over the last two years they have harmed the effort. Wehirealiens, ruined because of broken promises and racist comments allowed on the site. The boycott coalition, heavily wounded by theft by FIRE Coalition President.. The Grayslake IL event, 36 people walked out after the FIRE speaker that stalked me up there went on for three times the time allowed prior to my speech. The fundraiser in Phoenix AZ was filled with drama as well after they stalked me out there and their guy from NC burned several local activists.

I'm just telling you that I fully expect that pattern of damage to continue on May 1 here in Raleigh.

Forgive me if Im not very receptive to the "oh it's ok if we show up at their rally anyway" messages Im getting from a few of you.

Sometimes some of you make me feel like I'm wasting my time and making a mistake sharing anything that has gone on behind the scenes.

If the May 1 protest was being arranged by The Action Club, NC Voice, or NC Listen or any group with a proven track record of success it would be different and something we could support with confidence.

You folks are advocating that people support a group that has a proven track record of betrayal and destruction and harm to our movement.

W

Friends,

I just wanted to let everyone know that due to this discussion here, the NC director of FIRE Coalition has just launched a broadcast e-mail open letter attack on ALIPAC this morning.

He also signed it as a field rep for our allied organization NC Listen.

We are working on our response now.

W

This is the sort of thing that makes not only myself, but many others allergic to "organizations." There simply is no need for fighting amongst allied groups. To be honest, my very first gut instinct with the Fire Coalition was that it was a Rhino made organization, created for the purpose of diluting the Conservative immigration argument. That comes from my experience with GOP organizers and planners. I felt with an early petition they posted that they were simply an organization attempting to create a demographic out of the anti-illegal immigration movement. Something tangible and manageable. However, what I have seen is that they have produced some empirical results. They seem to be good at organizing rallies and conferences, demonstrations and counter-demonstrations. So even if the intention or even original agenda was to try and "manage" the problem of amnesty for Rhinos, it has not succeeded thus far.

I have heard that management of the "problem" is a big strategic push right now in the GOP and in my heart I believe that this was the original purpose of the FIRE coalition. For someone unfamiliar with how Rhinos work in the underworld of political organization, it might not seem so easily evident. I would just present the glaring omission of any direct anti-GOP rhetoric. They usually focus on policy and immigration isn't really as much a priority as it may seem. After all they pushed Huckabee and one would not find direct condemnation of Bush by the organization. They simply present materials on illegal immigration that exist in the realm of info, but avoid criminalizing GOP politicians. You won't find the FIRE coalition reforming the ether into philosophical statements. To me it is fairly obvious that the FIRE coalition was simply created to capitalize on the opposition to illegal immigration and turn this into a tangible demographic to be utilized by GOP politicos.

What I find amusing is that GOP zealots have no real understanding of how Conservatives think. You can easily organize folks on the left by fadding or trending any policy, they eat it up. For Democrats if you can configure a policy into a consumable narcissistic item and market it so that it gives the illusion that one can take possession of it, you have a mindless zealot who is willing to forget any hypocrisy or contradictions and will champion said idea. As it is said: "If you give a Dem a chance at martyrdom, they will kill themselves trying to make it safe, convenient and risk free." Real conservatives don't forget and most especially hold to their values. I think that the MSM throws this label around, but in reality you cannot be a this-or-that Conservative. I have even heard Michelle Malkin incorrectly use the term Open Border Conservative. That makes no sense at all. If you are open borders, but like some Conservative ideas, you are a Republican. But again the GOP doesn't get that they cannot change the breeze and expect that real Conservatives will blow in the wind, no matter how many email updates they send with Patriotic quotes from Thomas Jefferson at the bottom after pitching amnesty a paragraph before.

All movements which form their solidarity via a common foe, foreign or domestic, tend to also have developed power centers that form around the needs of the moment. Many times this means that they end up overlooking differences that would otherwise divide them. As I mentioned somewhere else, the goal of the GOP is to foster in-fighting and remove the solidarity element of the anti-illegal immigration movement, by not parading the argument in the main stream media. The hope is that this will cause insurmountable fissures if the issue returns.

On the positive side, I would encourage FIRE members to form organizations of their own, whether they have 3 or 3000 members. Smaller less centralized groups, with directly accountable leadership, all working for the same goal are much stronger than heavy collectivist organizations that splinter after a falling out. I would say that they should create organizations and continue to participate where they please. This would take the danger of an orchestrated collapse away from the FIRE coalition and allow members to benefit from the directly positive directions yet ensure they do not go down with the ship; if/when someone intentionally drops a charge 9 red bag in the boiler room.

"While the boasted energies of monarchy have yielded to easy conquest the people they were to protect, should our fabric of freedom suffer no more than the slight agitations we have experienced, it will be a useful lesson to the friends as well as the enemies of self-government." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to New York Legislature, 1809

I see all who oppose illegal immigration as Liberty conscious folks. So while we can concede that the "leader" of FIRE coalition is suspect, I wouldn't condemn its members who simply follow an ideal. I would wager that while he paddles a profound canoe in his own mind, an autonomous fleet seethes from behind out of his contact and into a harbor of their own doing.

I'm getting to the point where any group that seems to be flush with cash is suspect. One consistent theme among most patriots, and dedicated patriot orgs for that matter is pauperdom. When I see loose money within an organization that purports to be fighting illegal immigration these days I can't help but wonder why. It seldom comes from within our parishes. Looks like we've got wolves on the border, and a FIRE in our midst.