Thread: How come we can't get more people to come out and protest?

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

3. You never can be certain who will try to show up at outdoor protests in uncontrollable areas and the White Nationalists, White Supremacists, and Neo Nazis keep sticking their noses into events by our team.

Who are these White Nationalists/White Supremacists/Neo-Nazis who keep turning up at your events?

We wish the would go throw their own events and leave those of us that want nothing to do with them alone. They actually help the cause of the illegals when they try to show up and ruin our work.

Actually, I would argue that you are the one who is doing a disservice to the cause of immigration reform. In the short term, it is easy for conservatives like yourself to score political points by making a lot of noise about "illegals," but once Bush gets his amnesty the whole issue of "illegal immigration" will disappear once and for all. All the "illegals" here now will become American citizens like those who benefited from the 1986 amnesty. The "illegals" of the future will simply immigrate here legally after legal immigration is drastically expanded.

And as you proudly never cease remind us, ALIPAC is for legal immigration, which puts you on the same team with the "there shall be open borders" crowd at the Wall Street Journal. In the long term, by defining the immigration debate in such stark and ridiculous terms (illegals = bad, legal immigrants = good), people like you are playing right into the hands of the amnesty crowd. The so-called illegals come from the same communities as the legal immigrants from Latin America. They share the same culture, ancestry, history, and political beliefs — all the things that really matter in life. But what matters to you — what is of such overwhelming importance — is whether or not the Mexican in question has the proper paperwork, not where the sympathies of his or her heart ultimately lays. Of all the reasons to complain about "illegals," you indict them for trespassing.

I think the Nazis are hoping that the moderates continue to fail because eventually, more people will start turning to extremes since the current system, as in the American Republic, has been hijacked an no longer serves the majority of our citizens.

W

I suppose you could say that, W. Although I am not a "White Nationalist/White Supremacist/Neo-Nazi," I share the view of the so-called "extremists" that our political system is fundamentally broken. The two-party system is unresponsive to the needs of American majority. As the demographic descent of America to third world status accelerates, the disconnect between elite GOP politicians in Washington and the folks back home will only widen. The political imperative of courting the Hispanic vote isn't going away. Conservatives who think they can teach the GOP a lesson by "tossing out the RINOs" are deluding themselves — the GOP responded to the 2006 election wipeout by appointing Mel Martinez as their national chairman, and pressing even harder for amnesty for illegal aliens. The only thing that really surprises me is that the breaking point has come so soon.

Even if you were to shut down immigration completely tommorrow, which isn't going to happen, differential birth rates will irreversibly transform the American political scene to the disadvantage of real Americans. Does it really matter whether the amnesty comes this summer, next year, a few years down the road? At this point, it is only a matter of time. And our enemies only have to succeed once. Conservatives like you, or "moderates" if you prefer that designation, who are always condescending down to us "no good extremists" are living on borrowed time. Your days of sailing smoothly within the political mainstream are numbered. Bush, Rove, McCain, Graham, etc. know the score. The GOP has to shift further and further left in order to keep pace with America's changing demographics. Hence, all that jazz about "compassionate conservatism." It's why they are increasingly unabashed about lumping you in with all the "bigots, haters, racists, nazis, xenophobes, extremists, etc." and other scandalous ilk who "don't want to do what's right for America" by opposing "comprehensive immigration reform." They hope to shave people like you off from their political coalition eventually.

Until then, I will be keeping a spot warm for you out here on the "fringe." Best of luck in fighting this amnesty thing. You're going to need it.

Regards,

Daedalus

Who are these White Nationalists/White Supremacists/Neo-Nazis who keep turning up at your events?

There are a handful of White Power types on stormfront that constantly do their best to put shells in the guns of our opposition by threatening to show up or trying to show up at events I've been at and others have planned.

One of the key elements of this debate is about people being where they are and are not wanted. SFs and the others are clearly not wanted at events thrown by our team. The main group that does want them to show up are the illegal alien supporters and many of these WNs are willing to help out. I've told them before that they should write the ADL or SPLC for checks to reimburse their travel expenses. The ADL and SPLC would probably pay the bills if they are not already!

Yes, if mainstream America fails to restore balance and true representation to the American public, then the fringes will go toe to toe just like they did in Germany and Russion in the 1920's and 30's.

If that unfortunate day comes, I will know I did all I could to stop it from going to that.

Your analysis of ALIPAC is wrong because you assume that we are a static organization that cannot adjust or change with the times.

In fact, we are one of the only groups sporting a plan of action should this bill pass.

Our platform clearly states that we support those that come here legally under the current legal immigration levels.

Should the battlefield change, we will be able to change with it as we will continue to fight.

Your claim we are playing into the hands of the globalists is ludicrous. ALIPAC has been acknowledged as one of the key groups considered a threat to their plans. That is why they are trying to imitate us in their human psychology experiments designed to help them complete the North American Union.

Very few people here at ALIPAC attribute bad qualities to illegal immigration, simply because it is against the law. This site and our public communications are filled with thousands of reasons illegal immigration is bad, the vast majority of which will not go away if Congress waives a wand to make them legal.

Have you actually been looking at what ALIPAC does Daedalus? Or are you just upset that we tell the fringes to get the hell out of our way?

Sounds like the latter to me, because your descriptions of ALIPAC and our positions and our strategies are way off the mark.

You can be the one to let us know if that is due to a lack of knowledge or your political spin.

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

There are a handful of White Power types on stormfront that constantly do their best to put shells in the guns of our opposition by threatening to show up or trying to show up at events I've been at and others have planned.

Be specific. What are these events you are referring to? I haven't glanced at Stormfront in years now, but I would be truly amazed if Stormfronters were flocking to your events given their political views. You advocate an aracial immigration policy. Your only objection to the United States becoming another Brazil is that it is being done unlawfully. Needless to say, White Nationalists (to their credit) are fundamentally opposed to that.

One of the key elements of this debate is about people being where they are and are not wanted. SFs and the others are clearly not wanted at events thrown by our team.

Once again, I would like you to name some specific events for me. You keep invoking these shadowy Neo-Nazis, presumably associated with the Stormfront website, who keep wrecking your plans. Provide some documentation of this.

The main group that does want them to show up are the illegal alien supporters and many of these WNs are willing to help out. I've told them before that they should write the ADL or SPLC for checks to reimburse their travel expenses. The ADL and SPLC would probably pay the bills if they are not already!

So, the ADL and SPLC are working with Stormfront behind the scenes against you? Stormfront is really for illegal immigration. Morris Dees, Abe Foxman, and David Duke, BFF. That's about the wildest conspiracy theory I have heard in six years of posting on online forums. It really puts "Jews did 9/11" to shame. And people say White Nationalists are paranoid!

Now that I think about it, you are the one here pushing ADL/SPLC talking points: racially conscious whites are somehow moral lepers, and should be excluded from the immigration reform movement. Your position borders on being anti-white. Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, Asians — every single one of these groups celebrate (glorify!) their racial/ethnic identity and organize themselves politically to advance their racial/ethnic interests. See the Congressional Black Caucus, Congressional Hispanic Caucus, Congressional Asian-Pacific Islander Caucus, etc. All of this passes for "mainstream" in America: the ADL, AJC, National Council of La Raza, NAACP, Urban League. Barack Obama has even made a presidential campaign out of his blackness.

Would you exclude blacks from the immigration reform movement who oppose amnesty because they believe it is bad for Black America? I don't think you would. In fact, I think you would cheer them on, as would I. There is nothing pathological about identifying with one's kin and expressing concern for their welfare. That's simply human nature. When white Americans do so, we denounce it as "racism." When other groups do so, we call it "celebrating diversity" or some other multiculturalist canard. It is one thing to oppose Neo-Nazism. It is quite another to lock hands with Morris Dees and sneer at beleagured working class whites to win status points with the politically correct.

Yes, if mainstream America fails to restore balance and true representation to the American public, then the fringes will go toe to toe just like they did in Germany and Russion in the 1920's and 30's.

I hate to break it to you, but that battle was lost ten to fifteen years ago. The demographic transformation America is too far advanced now. You know this as well as the rest of us. The immigrant baby boom is already here. Millions upon millions of Hispanic youth are coming of age in the next few years. GOP strategists like Karl Rove are not stupid. Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado are all going the way of California. In order to survive nationally, Republicans will have to shift to dramatically to the left like Schwarzenegger has done in California. The conservative base of the GOP, of course, won't stand for that. Hence, the ongoing dissolution of conservative movement before our eyes. In a few years, give or take, we will all be "extremists." The American political scene should be more interesting then.

If that unfortunate day comes, I will know I did all I could to stop it from going to that.

While I applaud your efforts in opposing illegal immigration, I worry that by putting the spotlight squarely on illegals, you have contributed to reducing the debate to what ultimately will be but a passing phase in America's immigration catastrophe. Eventually, Bush will get his precious amnesty: all the 20 million illegals will cease to be illegals, and all the illegals of the future will come here legally. What are you going to do then?

Your analysis of ALIPAC is wrong because you assume that we are a static organization that cannot adjust or change with the times.

Your organization is by definition for legal immigration. The open borders crowd aren't stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. They plan on diffusing the whole illegal alien/amnesty theme that talk radio has been harping on for years by radically expanding legal immigration until it swallows up what had previously been illegal immigration. In doing so, they will be in a position to denounce all their critics as "anti-immigrant." How do you plan on changing focus post-amnesty without having your previous position tossed back in your face?

In fact, we are one of the only groups sporting a plan of action should this bill pass. Our platform clearly states that we support those that come here legally under the current legal immigration levels. Should the battlefield change, we will be able to change with it as we will continue to fight.

On what grounds exactly do you propose to criticize legal immigration post amnesty?

Your claim we are playing into the hands of the globalists is ludicrous. ALIPAC has been acknowledged as one of the key groups considered a threat to their plans. That is why they are trying to imitate us in their human psychology experiments designed to help them complete the North American Union.

Do you acknowledge my point that it would be extremely difficult to change the entire focus of your organization post-amnesty; that you have backed yourself into a corner by making "law and order" the centerpiece of your worldview?

Very few people here at ALIPAC attribute bad qualities to illegal immigration, simply because it is against the law. This site and our public communications are filled with thousands of reasons illegal immigration is bad, the vast majority of which will not go away if Congress waives a wand to make them legal.

That's good to hear. I stand corrected.

Have you actually been looking at what ALIPAC does Daedalus? Or are you just upset that we tell the fringes to get the hell out of our way?

No, I am genuinely concerned about your strategy of focusing on illegal immigration. Even you admit a problem exists here. I'm sincerely worried that legal immigration provides an opportunity for the open borders crowd to defang the immigration reform movement.