Thread: Immigrant Voting: Your immediate feedback needed

Hey thelmahopkins,

Perhaps kitty would like a homeloan too?

W

Below is the transcript from Lou Dobbs' November 16th program where he interviewed the NYC Councilman who's pushing this:


DOBBS: There's a controversial proposal under debate in New York City now that would give non-citizens a protected privilege of American citizenship, the right to vote. Supporters of the legislation say non-citizens that pay local taxes should also have their say at the ballot box. It's an intriguing idea.

And we asked Bill Tucker to look into it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Increasingly, non- citizens are demanding the right to vote in America. And some members of New York City Council want to grant them the privilege in New York City municipal elections as a way, they say, of bringing those resident non-citizens into America's democracy.

BILL PERKINS, NY CITY COUNCILMAN: We have the most open opportunities for allowing people to participate, and we should continue to expand those opportunities. This legislation on a local level begins to do that.

TUCKER: It's estimated that one in every five New Yorkers is not a citizen. Non-citizens are allowed to vote in Chicago's school board elections if they have children in the school system. In several communities in Maryland, non-citizens and illegal aliens are allowed to vote in local election.

Non-citizen voting laws have passed at the local level in Amherst, Newton and Cambridge, Massachusetts. But state law prohibits them for now.

New York City's Mayor Bloomberg opposes the bill before his city council. Those outside city government who oppose the bill do so on the grounds that immediately granting the right to vote to non- citizens devalues both the vote and citizenship.

STANLEY RENSHON, AUTHOR OF "50 PER CENT AMERICAN: IMMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY IN AN AGE OF TERROR": Voting is the core of citizenship, and courts have enshrined it as a central feature of American democracy. People have died for that vote. People have struggled for 20 or 30 or 40 years to have the vote.

So clearly, the vote is very central to the idea of citizenship and to the ideal of American democracy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCKER: And so is the idea of participation. And those who are against granting voting rights to non-citizens point out there is nothing stopping non-citizens from being active in community groups, working for a political party or, Lou, even being involved in their kids' schools.

DOBBS: But of course it gets more complicated. This is, after all, America. Bill Tucker, thank you.

New York City Councilman Charles Barron is one of the co-sponsors of this legislation. The councilman says the main opponents of this bill are New Yorkers who are afraid of losing political influence. He says, "White men just have too much power. They just don't want to give up on power."

New York City Councilman Charles Barron joins us now.

Good to have you with us.

CHARLES BARRON (D), NYC COUNCILMAN: Thank you very much for having me. DOBBS: You suggest that this is -- really amounts to -- that the current situation amounts to taxation without representation for non- citizens. How so?

BARRON: Well, first of all, they are allowed to go die in wars, they are allowed to be taxed 15.5 percent of income. That makes up about $18 billion of taxation. And this is not new.

In America, from 1770 to 1920, 22 states allowed legal residents who are trying to get their citizenship to vote. So if they could die, pay taxes, they should be able to vote. And I think that the balance of power will shift if the 1.3 million, mostly people of color, who are disenfranchised by this non-voting thing would change.

DOBBS: Well, now, when you say the balance of power shift, you're talking about on a racial basis?

BARRON: Racial basis. If you look at New York State, the governor, a white man, the head of the Senate, a white man, the head of the state legislature, a white man. The mayor, a white man. The commissioner...

DOBBS: White guys.

BARRON: Yes, a bunch of white guys. And it's time for that to stop. And everybody knows it's true. They say you're not supposed to say it, it's not politically wise.

DOBBS: Well, it may not be politically wise, but on this broadcast...

BARRON: But it's the truth. It's the truth.

DOBBS: ... Councilman, we really would like people to talk straight, and you're doing it.

BARRON: Yes.

DOBBS: And that's why we want you here.

Now, when you talk about -- as Bill Tucker reported, one fifth of New Yorkers are non-citizens. That would shift the balance of power certainly significantly. I don't know whether it would be enough to suit your idea of proportionality racially in terms of the power structure. But I do know that there is a way for people to get the right to vote, and that's to become U.S. citizens.

BARRON: And that is most difficult. You know how many people of color are trying ...

DOBBS: What's difficult?

BARRON: It is very difficult. It's not as easy as you think. It was easier when the when the ...

DOBBS: You don't know how easy I think it is. BARRON: Well, it's not that easy. Because, it was easier when the immigrants were white. People don't like to deal with race.

DOBBS: Oh, now you really believe that.

BARRON: I really believe that now that we have more immigrants of color, Chinese, Asian, Africans.

DOBBS: Wait, I've got to ask you something.

BARRON: That's true, I believe that.

DOBBS: An estimated 20 million illegal aliens enter this country, irrespective of race.

BARRON: We're talking about legal citizens who are applying for citizenship, who want to be citizens, 10, 15 years, and it wasn't always that difficult.

DOBBS: Charles, you and I agree on something.

BARRON: It wasn't always that difficult. Now some people want to close the borders and not let folks in anymore.

DOBBS: You mean, illegal aliens.

BARRON: No, I'm talking about.

DOBBS: Folk? Come on.

BARRON: People of color.

DOBBS: Oh, you see it all in racial terms?

BARRON: Absolutely. Racism permeates every institution in America. I don't know why you are so shocked when we bring up race.

DOBBS: I'm not shocked, I'm annoyed, because you look at everything in racial terms, rather in terms of the national interest.

BARRON: No, because you don't look at anything in racial terms.

DOBBS: I look at a whole lot of things in racial terms.

BARRON: You know, when I talk to the mayor sometimes, he says Charles, you see everything in race and everything. No mayor, you don't see race in anything. And that's the problem. You can't get rid of racism pretending that it doesn't exist.

DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. But what I don't understand, are why people attach race to the issue of border security and to the overwhelming illegal immigration crisis we have in this country.

BARRON: Because it always has been a crises. But when it was a white immigrant... DOBBS: The first time in our history, councilman. Let me update you on something.

BARRON: Go ahead.

DOBBS: For the first time in history, we have more illegal immigrants in this country than we have legal.

BARRON: We're not talking about illegal -- I don't even like illegal immigrants.

DOBBS: You like folk. You like folk, don't you, councilman? Go with folk.

BARRON: Real people, real people. But let's talk about the legal...

DOBBS: ... they're real people, 300 million of them here.

BARRON: Let's talk about the legal residents who are applying for citizenship. That's who we're talking about now. They're denied citizenship and denied the right to vote. But they can die and pay taxes, they can die and pay taxes, but they can't vote.

DOBBS: They can't vote because they're not citizens. It's a right of citizenship. It's a right of citizenship.

BARRON: You had non-citizens voting from 1717-to-1920 in America. How come it was all right then, but not now? What's the difference?

DOBBS: Well, you tell me.

BARRON: Race! That you don't like to mention.

DOBBS: Well no, I don't mind mentioning it, as long as it makes sense.

BARRON: That's why. I think the complexion of immigrants has changed.

DOBBS: So, I want you to come back, because we're running out of time. And we're going to talk about race. And these white bad guys who are hanging onto power.

BARRON: They have too much power.

DOBBS: Too much power.

BARRON: Time's up.

DOBBS: You got it. But there's time for you to come back, because we want to discuss this a lot more.

Notice how quickly this interview became an issue of RACISM. WHY does this ALWAYS happen????

Originally Posted by thelmahopkins

If they get to vote ,then my cat ferdinand gets to vote. he speaks no english , has been here 12 years, and has no legal papers. He will fit right in.

That is so funny thelma.

Well, thelmahopkins. I've got two MORE votes to add to the mixture! Thanks for the brilliant idea. I have one dog who DOES speak SOME English, one that doesn't. One DOES have papers, the other doesn't. BUT, based on your interpretation of the voting laws, they should definitely get the vote. They are LEGAL. In fact, in some counties in North Carolina, you even have to pay taxes to have pets. So, that should sure qualify them! I'm positive I could convince them to vote like I want them to OR I will withhold all of their "PERKS"!

I noticed that their news articles on the top page in the pink box all went to Hispanic sites.

Illegal immigrants should not be able to vote.

Does anyone know if it is a fact that green card holders are waiting up to 10 years for citizenship? If that is correct, what percentage of them are waiting that long?

If these people are waiting that long then my feelings are a green card holder who is waiting on citizenship should be able to vote in local and state elections. Provided they meet all the other prerequisites for state and local voting. They should not be allowed to vote in federal elections until they are US citizens.

Originally Posted by JohnB2012

I noticed that their news articles on the top page in the pink box all went to Hispanic sites.

Illegal immigrants should not be able to vote.

Does anyone know if it is a fact that green card holders are waiting up to 10 years for citizenship? If that is correct, what percentage of them are waiting that long?

If these people are waiting that long then my feelings are a green card holder who is waiting on citizenship should be able to vote in local and state elections. Provided they meet all the other prerequisites for state and local voting. They should not be allowed to vote in federal elections until they are US citizens.

This might answer your question. What it is saying you have to be here 5 years before able to file. Once you file, your looking at another year.

Sec. 316. [8 U.S.C. 1427]


(a) No person, except as otherwise provided in this title, shall be naturalized, unless such applicant, (1) immediately preceding the date of filing his application for naturalization has resided continuously, after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence, within the United States for at least five years and during the five years immediately preceding the date of filing his application has been physically present therein for periods totaling at least half of that time, and who has resided within the State or within the district of the Service in the United States in which the applicant filed the application for at least three months, (2) has resided continuously within the United States from the date of the application up to the time of admission to citizenship, (3) during all the periods referred to in this subsection has been and still is a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.

Thanks for the research, Scub.

Thanks Scub.