Thread: Immigration Voice Assessment of Americans

THE Immigration Voice Assessment of American Citizens

[i]Members of the Immigration Voice Website present their assessment
of American Citizens who are concerned about their jobs and futures.
Thread Author: purgan
12-13-2006
Thread is Jelsoft VBulletin, so to navigate to it.
http://www.immigrationvoice.com
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Immigration Information
IV Agenda and Legislative Updates
Scroll to Thread title: Why can't the Anti-Immigrationists Understand this Simple Thing...

Highlights of the Message Thread from 12-12-2006 thru 12-14-2006

Many of us (like myself) have been in this country for over a decade, paying taxes, creating wealth and jobs for the US economy and contributing to the local community (I've been participating regularly in Big Brothers, Habitat for Humanity and the Salvation Army).

I have an advance degree from a Ivy League university and published papers in research journals. I have created several millions of dollars of additional revenue and helped generate many new jobs for US citizens. By the way, I'd like to point out that my job did not exist before I came and I did not displace anyone. I've paid tens of thousands of dollars in federal, state, and local taxes, including social security (of which I don't expect to get a dime back in benefits). I've never receieved any assistance or welfare from the US government. I speak perfectly good english and have never committed any crime. I mingle well with my American friends and coleagues. I celebrate and enjoy thanksgiving and christmas, and talk good things about my adopted country whenever I go back to my native land. The US government could not purchase such good PR if it wanted to.

That said, my faith in the US immigration system has been shaken. My Green card application has been stuck in the broken EB Visa system for over 5 years. Congressional intent was that such applications be adjucated, one way or the other, in 6-12 months. But now, even after all this extended delay, there is still no end in sight.

All I ask is that my application be adjucated in a timely manner in accordance with legislative intent...Is that too much to ask??? Why would the anti-immigrationists oppose this?? Is it simply blind hatred or bigotry or xenophobia driving this opposition? I can't think of any economic or social reason.

I would like you to post your stories on this thread....hopefully, some sane people from the other side, journalists, decision makers, will read our posts and realize that we're not "stealing jobs", "committing crimes", or engaging in "war on the middle class" as some like to put it. All we request is a timely adjucation of our application. Period

Originally Posted by GC4meNow

What these "anti-immigration" simpletons do not understand is that either we will get the jobs here where they can compete for these jobs or the jobs will go to us where they will NOT be able to compete for them. Choice is theirs!

Originally Posted by nycgal369

Americans are not long term thinking, most of them are reactionary, responding from a short term problem. This is even more true of congressmen and senators, they are not intellectuals, and anyway they listen to their constituents. .

GC4meNow conveniently omits the fact that nearly half a million Americans were fired, force to train foreign H-1B replacements, then sent to the unemployment lines. GC4meNow failed to mention that the problem is exacerbated by the common practice of age discrimination.

Originally Posted by boreal

these anti immigrationists come across are not always the "best" or the "brightest" in their respective fields. This starts to light the fire within them and when they see their lesser qualified American colleagues out-of-jobs, their passion that had been buried for a long time within them comes out in the open.

Originally Posted by zcool

Fact of the matter is this country's southern parts have always had racist DNA. Last 5 yrs. under republicans racist southern philosophy is ascendent and a very vocal minority made out issue out of immigration. That said.. anyone who has doubts and is hoping against hope that something will change.. they are in for disappointment..
Who are waiting.. Indians and Chinese..
What are they gonna do? write some blogs and write some letters??
Who gives a damn..?? Thing is Indian community is just too timid.. and thing system has created too many stakeholders that depend on endless supply of slaves 6 yrs each at a time.. Nothing will change..

zcool plays the race card

Originally Posted by purgan

Besides being involved with IV's efforts, I've called my US Senator's offices sevral times this year. Each time I explain my background (as explained above) and problem....i've talked to many people, and I'm sure atleast some of them are listening

Which senator is Purgan's senator - McCain, Cornyn, Rodham, Prince Charming of Chappiquiddick, who?

Originally Posted by purgan

Ultimately many of us far along the GC process will persevere and ultimately get residency/citizenship. What the anti-immigration movement -NumbersUSA, FAIR, CIS, ALIPAC - does not realize is that by opposing relief for us genuine legal immigrants, they are cultivating an entire generation of well-educated, well-financed professionals who will make immigration control even harder for them to achieve in the future because these entities are doing all they can to make life miserable for us today.

Whatever you say, Mr. Purgan, you know it all

Originally Posted by perm2gc

The people(americans) are hearing more jobs that are outsourced and more jobs loss at home for which they think we are the reason.The Media and some senators like sessions and anti immigration organization like numbersusa fuel it up more..The Average American does not understand what we are .We always tend to live ourself than tend to live as ONE may be big reason that we are stuck in the mess...The more media attention we get about our problems,the more Americans understand what we are, will help us and others who are in the line s to join us.

Nearly a million Americans who lost their jobs to H-1Bs and outsourcing to India, are quite aware that they were fired. They know that a key reason is America's shadow government - The Council on Foreign Relations and receipt of bribe money from the pacs. They also know that the Tata salesmen and their lobby forces contribute a lot to the problem.

Originally Posted by dixie (of the Immigration Voice

]If you notice, the folks against H1-Bs are also againt illegal aliens, EB immigration,FB immigration,globalization,outsourcing and even birthright citizenship. All that talk of the best and the brightest is just a smokescreen - they want all foreigners out but just want to wrap it in more politically correct terms for the mainstream media. You will see that these very same FAIR and numbersUSA folks write columns for openly racist sites like vdare where they don't use the politically correct smokescreen.

Originally Posted by msp1976

But I think I got the answer to atleast where some of the opposition is coming from. So even though Roy Beck of NumbersUSA and Dan Stein and Lou Dobbs don't say it (for political correctness), I'm pretty convinced they harbor feeling's akin to Mr Brewster's (below):
This is Classic Quote: “A legal immigrant from the Third World is just an illegal immigrant with a green card,”

Originally Posted by msp1976

There is a certain section of population still carrying around the mindset from the pre civil war era. They never accepted the multi cultural form of society. For them America is to be reserved for the people of the north eastern european ancestry that too the one that came before civil war. In fact there were instances of even immigrants from Britain being treated very badly..I personally know someone from Britain who was laid of 2 times during his green card processing, spent 5/6 years on H1, finally gave up and went to Canada..
The anti immigrant attitude is nothing new..If you study the history of this country for last 200 years..There has always been people that were anti-immigration. The anti-immigrant sentiment is not a new phenomenon...It just happnes so that today Indians/chinese make the largest contigents among immigrants...If we were not here, those anti-immigrant would find someone to hate....

Originally Posted by nygal369

actually hatred of indians/chinese is not as much as hatred of mexicans and latinos. this is mostly because of illegals. for indians/chinese it is primarily from tech industry workers for taking jobs away. but I have heard many small town Americans say they like Asian (including Indian) immigrants because (a) they are educated and (b) they dont disrupt life here, dont create problems for the community and are generally not "troublemakers". (their words, not mine)

Wrong answer, nygal369, it isn't any hatred for any particular race - it's hatred for the self-serving arrogance the H-1Bs practice upon receiving training from Americans who are being fired, and the H-1Bs' utter arrogance at considering elected officials to be their congressman, or their senator. Total morally backrupt sociopaths. Does Tata teach H-1Bs to behave this way?

What Americans particularly dislike, is the "YOU OWE US YOUR JOBS" arrogance from many H-1Bs and L-1s

Originally Posted by purgan

Essentiially the same people (predominantly from Dixieland) who were against Civil Rights for African Americans, are fighting against Immigrants Rights today....they don't care if someone comes legally or illegally...they simply don't like brown skinned 'third-world' types. Or as Loo Dobbs calls euphemistically calls them "cheap third world labor".

Here comes the race card again, they learn that from the illegals?

Originally Posted by jointy_11

Anti Immi are racists for starters, now with globalization, they are the ones who feel threatened the most....If they would have it their way, they would all take Hitler;s lead and declare their race/blood is superior to all else.

More race card - now who's the real racists, H-1B?

Originally Posted by msp1976

You guys are underestimating the extent of anger against the Indian or chinese..Anyone who ends up a loser in the system..which happens a lot nowadays has this resentment against us....Nobody accepts that the people coming from India/China are highly educated and would end in the higher income category...Especially I have seen even more resentment from minorities in the US....Nobody is willing to take a hard look at themselves and evaluate their own options....They keep talking about thousands of IT worker not getting work..Any tom dick harry goes to some 'IT' courses and calls himself/herself a great IT worker..Also this industry is changing so fast...any experience beyond 6-7 year is meaningless...Then people with experience with some oudated technology would complain about not getting jobs..I have seen lots like that....
Complex subject....I am tired of this junk...

Originally Posted by msp1976

I know what is happening...Those ***** are preparing for Amnesty processing...When they want to end retrogression they can do it in a few months.....They donot want to do it..That the main issue...

I think this H-1B is right on the first comment, but we need to clarify that it's a group of high profile senators that are preparing us to endure amnesty processing

Originally Posted by logiclife (administrator)

To try to understand what logic or thought-process drives the behavior of anti-immigration advocates is a waste of time.

They are a noisy minority. The ones against high-skills immigration are even more minor.

To try to negotiate or convince them is a waste of time. They have studied the whole H1B and EB program and they know exactly what happens and exactly what value we provide. They are not ignorant and they dont need education from us.

They are fanatics who are unwilling to change their mind and cannot change the subject. They want cheaper iPods but dont want H1B workers here. They want cheap homes and cheap gardners and landscapers but dont want illegal workers here. They want the labor (skilled and unskilled), they dont want to deal with the bodies that do the labor -- skilled or unskilled.

I was at an event recently where I first heard the term "Social Contract" from a professor at Loyola Marymount. It is used to describe America's immigration policy since decades as being a "Social Contract". When you accept the labor, you also accept the body. You cannot take the labor and then return the bodies back to place of origin.

The anti immigrants want labor and they use that labor everyday intentionally or unintentionally. If Roy Beck and John Tanton shopped at Walmart, then they have used that immigrant labor. If they have ever eaten products from Tyson foods, they have definately used immigrant labor, that too, of the illegal variety. The lettuce in their salads, the spinach, the produce, --- all of it has been touched, picked and harvested by the invaders they want to drive out.

The sad part is, these guys use the term "Social Contract" to run their publishing house that advocates against immigration.

Originally Posted by purgan

well said Logiclife. To put it simply, at their core, organizations like NuSA, FAIR, CIS, Social Contract Press are racist groups. They have been classified as such by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

How enlightening - H-1Bs are playing the race card again.

Originally Posted by Pineapple

It is a sheer waste of time and energy. And anyway, the anti-immgration people are not a homogeneous group: They range from anti-globalization radicals (Friends of Lou Dobbs) to thinly disguised supremacists to ill-informed suburban "security moms". Dealing with even one group is an exercise in futility, let alone trying to convince them all.

Edited only to correct spelling of http. Sorry for the inconvenience.

They are fanatics who are unwilling to change their mind and cannot change the subject. They want cheaper iPods but dont want H1B workers here. They want cheap homes and cheap gardners and landscapers but dont want illegal workers here. They want the labor (skilled and unskilled), they dont want to deal with the bodies that do the labor -- skilled or unskilled.

I'll take that as a compliment. Of course we need things cheaper because the rest of our money goes to supporting unappreciative law breakers who like to increase the need for additional law enforcement. We dislike the "good" illegals because they support and aid the "bad" illegals. And as far as the first person goes...if they really attended an Ivy League school, he should know how to spell "colleague", and he should know to capitalize "Christmas" and "Thanksgiving". I think that he is bluffing. And as the rest...blah, blah, blah...we've heard it all before. And just for the record...things don't seem any cheaper to me but the quality is a lot worse.

Yes, they console themselves that they are God's gift to America and why aren't we bowing down and thanking them? They spread the lie that only the poor performers are being let go, which if it became widely believed would mean that if you got displaced by one of these, you'd have trouble getting another IT job no matter what your performance review, skillset, and references. Maybe that explains why some of us have had trouble.

Some of them sincerely believe that America's technological greatness started with letting a bunch of them in. I'm 53 and THIRD generation IT, so I know better, but some people fall for this. They will say that America can't produce competent engineers, but fail to take into account our decades of technological leadership, man on the moon, etc.

They have very sensitive egos, and are very competetive back home - that's what the caste system is all about, keeping people in their places. Lots of historical one-upmanship and some of the untouchable castes were once high castes who lost a war. We better not lose this war over IT and Engineering with them, or else ...

The H-1bs attack us from the white-collar end, and from the blue-collar end come similar attacks from the illegals and their supporters:

"Are *you* willing to pack meat, pick and pack produce, mow lawns, clean toilets?
I didn't think so. Immigrants aren't taking jobs from hard-working Americans, only from lazy Americans. "

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/p ... 50378/1001 [comment section]

The only difference: the H-1b crowd says we can't do the jobs, the illegal crowd says we won't.

I read about half, and couldn't read anymore. Too long of a day already and it is only 5:00. I am however, going to that site. Cya.

More verbal abuse from Des Moines:

"And you know what the problem is with this country, none of you want to perform the jobs that those immigrants were doing and that’s a fact. You will do it only if you have to and even when you do, you complain how immigrants can get same positions that you have. Well, how about studying and not blaming anyone else for the mistakes you made in your life. Do you realize that your companies want to have illegal immigrants because they don’t want to pay you"

"Native Americans would say Columbus was an illegal immigrant and I’m inclined to agree. All you white Anglosaxons out there whining about the aliens ought to consider where you came from, and whose land you usurped."

http://blogs.dmregister.com/?p=3616

So, whoever has coveted something of ours, has their rationalization all worked out for them. The H-1bs can believe they are taking jobs from incompetent people who never should have had them, and the illegals can believe that nary a lawn would be mowed or a diaper changed, or a meal prepared, or a lavatory cleaned without them.

Does that mean that we can take your real estate? I live in the Midwest and a place in the sun sounds so nice right now.

Fact of the matter is this country's southern parts have always had racist DNA.

Racist DNA...I must have missed that science discovery in the news.

That site is nothing but dribble and third world nonsense.

Wasn't it Obi Wan who said:

"Who is the fool, the one who says it or the one who believes it?"

Quote:
Many of us (like myself) have been in this country for over a decade, paying taxes, creating wealth and jobs for the US economy and contributing to the local community (I've been participating regularly in Big Brothers, Habitat for Humanity and the Salvation Army).

I have an advance degree from a Ivy League university and published papers in research journals. I have created several millions of dollars of additional revenue and helped generate many new jobs for US citizens. By the way, I'd like to point out that my job did not exist before I came and I did not displace anyone. I've paid tens of thousands of dollars in federal, state, and local taxes, including social security (of which I don't expect to get a dime back in benefits). I've never receieved any assistance or welfare from the US government. I speak perfectly good english and have never committed any crime. I mingle well with my American friends and coleagues. I celebrate and enjoy thanksgiving and christmas, and talk good things about my adopted country whenever I go back to my native land. The US government could not purchase such good PR if it wanted to.

That said, my faith in the US immigration system has been shaken. My Green card application has been stuck in the broken EB Visa system for over 5 years. Congressional intent was that such applications be adjucated, one way or the other, in 6-12 months. But now, even after all this extended delay, there is still no end in sight.

All I ask is that my application be adjucated in a timely manner in accordance with legislative intent...Is that too much to ask??? Why would the anti-immigrationists oppose this?? Is it simply blind hatred or bigotry or xenophobia driving this opposition? I can't think of any economic or social reason.

I would like you to post your stories on this thread....hopefully, some sane people from the other side, journalists, decision makers, will read our posts and realize that we're not "stealing jobs", "committing crimes", or engaging in "war on the middle class" as some like to put it. All we request is a timely adjucation of our application. Period

Any idiot with a computer and keyboard could make the same claim, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

2 Clarifications, if I may.

Link has been corrected. Thanks to gofer for calling that to my attention, I misspelled http. Sorry 'bout that.

The H-1B and L-1 visas are NOT immigration visas - they are 6 year [cheap labor] jobs visas. They come here for 6 years (can be extended to 7), then they are supposed to return home. Many H-1Bs forget to return home and become illegal. Purpose of the H-1B is to allow foreign nationals to replace Americans in their jobs. Perceived technical shortages are a ruse and fabrication of the Council on Foreign Relations. The product of the H-1B visa is that American citizens end up in the unemployment lines.

1 Addition.
INDENTURED H-1Bs Indentured servitude is illegal, but widespread amongst H-1Bs. Many are intentured to Tata of Bangalore, India. Anyone want to see the links?