Thread: The Labor Shortage Argument for Open Borders

When I first joined ALIPAC, I came across a post where I brought up the argument for allowing legal immigration due to the future "labor shortage" since it came up in my Organizational Behavior class. Since then I've done the reading, and this is what is says

The U.S. labor shortage is a function of two factors--birth rates and labor participation rates. From the late 1960s through the late 1980s, American employers benefited from the large number of Baby Boomers (those born between 1946 and 1965) entering the workforce. Specifically, there are 76 million Baby Boomers in the workforce. But there are 10 million fewer Gen-Xers to replace them when they retire. The problem becomes serious beginning between 2007 and 2010, when the major exodus of Boomers from the workplace begins. Importantly, in spite of continued increases in immigration, new entrants to the workforce from foreign countries will not do much to correct the supply shortage.

And further...

In times of labor shortage, good wages and benefits aren't going to be enough to get and keep skiled employees. Managers will need sophisticated recruitment and retention strategies. (p. 20-21)

Source: Robbins, Stephen P. Organizational Behavior, 11th Edition. New Jersey: Prentice Hall, 2005.

Good post, daydreamer.

But here is the real bottom-line, as population shrinks, there is less need for labor. It's all relative. It's all proportional. There is no labor crisis, nor will there be. There is no shortage of workers, nor will there be. There never has been, there never will be.

If such a day comes, we will rejoice, not cry, because that means EVERYONE IS EMPLOYED; there is NO POVERTY; no NEEDY PEOPLE...just well to do smart people, who will say...gee, instead of using 10 illegal aliens to install that light bulb, why don't we invent a machine called an Automatic Light Bulb Installer or better yet, make a really good light bulb that won't burn out for 10 or 15 years...yeah, then we won't need workers to change light bulbs, but every 10 years or so. In fact we could manufacture light fixtures with two bulbs, so that when the first one burns out in 10 years, it automatically activates the second one. So, we won't have to change light bulbs for 20 years.

This is a CON GAME about workers, about labor, about shortages. As our population declines...should it ever...since it hasn't yet....then we'll worry about it THEN...and deal with it TECHNOLOGLICALLY, like a SMART ADVANCED NATION....eh?

Debunking the fake IT worker labor shortage similiarly applies to the fake labor shortages that employers use as an excuse to give hiring preference to illegals.

Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage
Testimony to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee
Subcommittee on Immigration
Dr. Norman Matloff
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html <--- Excellent resource to have while writing to elected officials
Long reading - since employers of illegal aliens use the same rationalizations to justify their love for illegal workers, many of the same facts as counter-arguments apply.

From Computerworld's

Myth 1: "Free trade is an economic wonder. Protectionism is a disaster." - Many successful countries practice heavy protectionism.
Myth 2: "Globalization is inevitable. It's impossible to save your job." - Examples given of industries that protect themselves and how widespread protectionism really is already in the US.
Myth 3: "Better education is the answer to the outsourcing/offshoring stampede." - Education is not a US comparative advantage

Entire Article: http://www.computerworld.com/management ... 91,00.html
about globalization myths.

The Labor Shortage Myth
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/85/essay.html

When boomers start to retire, the theory goes, we'll see a job boom. Too bad it won't happen

What would Stephen P. Robbins really KNOW about this future 'labor shortage'? Has he ever in his life seen one? Would he know one if it kicked him in his....? I doubt it, because it's NOT going to happen. That textbook was written on pure speculation. I've been in the workforce for 40 years, believe me it's not shrinking. Birth rates are still over that magic 2.0, the population is NOT shrinking.

The only thing that is shrinking is the balls of BIG BUSINESS at the thought of actually having to PAY a decent wage. That's why their foundations pay millions of dollars to print that tripe you call a textbook. So they can make you believe what they WANT you to believe. Nothing more.

And since this 'labor shortage' is a function of TWO factors(as stated), why does this specious argument totter on only one? Study THAT for a minute and tell me what you come up with.

Just one quote from Dr. Matloff's testimony, if I may.

Age discrimination is rampant in this field, starting even as young as 35. Though industry lobbyists like to dismiss this as being supported only by anecdotal evidence, the fact is that there is a plethora of hard data which show that older programmers and engineers do face major difficulties in finding programming and engineering jobs, ...

If employers would cease the practice of AGE-DISCRIMINATION they wouldn't need any H-1Bs, illegals, or L-1s, we could send every damn one of 'em back to India and Mexico. Just to clarify - they don't need the H-1Bs, illegals, and L-1s any damn way.

They are all a bunch of lying pricks.

Any Congressman or Congresswoman that falls for this bunk, this total package of traitor trash garbage is an idiot unworthy of public service and needs to be BOOTED!

Wake Up Congress!

Do your job, take your cues, end this nonsense now, and get these traitors our of our government and out of your HEARINGS.

We want this crap stopped N O W!!

There is no labor shortage, there never has been a labor shortage, now send them people home or we'll send you home for good!

Here is a great article over at vdare.com:

http://vdare.com/

National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein
Looking (in vain) for "Jobs Americans Won’t Do"

When unveiling his guest worker proposal, President Bush urged Americans to "legalize the process of people doing jobs Americans won't do." Illegal immigrants, in this view, are essential to the country’s economic growth.

As I have shown before, nothing could be further from the truth.

There are at least 7 million illegal aliens working in the U.S.—about 4.5 % of the civilian labor force. Certain occupations have abnormally high concentrations of illegals: [Unauthorized Migrants: Numbers and Characteristics, Pew Hispanic Center, By Jeffrey S. Passel, June 14, 2005]
bullet drywall/ceiling tile installers, 27%

bullet landscaping services, 26%

bullet roofers, 21%

bullet maids and housekeepers, 22%

bullet animal slaughter and processing, 20%

Yet illegals make up only 13% of hotel industry workers, 11% of restaurant and food service workers, and 10% of construction workers. Clearly millions of Americans are doing precisely the same jobs, and countless others were working in these fields before being displaced by foreign-born workers.

Admittedly, these are blue collar jobs requiring little in the way of education or special skills. Yet literally millions of unlettered, unemployed natives are available to fill those slots. In 2004: (Table 1):
bullet 19 million U.S.-born adults (25 and over) did not have a high school degree

bullet only 7.1 million of them were in the labor force

bullet 684,000—nearly 10 percent—were unemployed

American workers in building cleaning and maintenance have an 11% unemployment rate. Similarly, 13% of native construction workers and 9% of native workers in food preparation are unemployed. [Illegals hurt Americans, By John Hostettler and Lamar Smith, Washington Times, December 2, 2005]

Illegal aliens work for less, are less likely to have medical insurance, and are often paid "off the books." They are a boon for all manner of employers, ranging from the neighborhood tree service to Wal-Mart.

I examined the relationship between foreign worker penetration (i.e., the percent of workers that are foreign-born) and wages in particular industries. The industry with the largest foreign-born share (38.3%) in 2004 was "Other services, private households"—a category that includes cleaning girls, nannies, gardeners, etc., while the smallest penetration (2.8%) was in "Agricultural, self-employed"—farmers who own their land. These figures reflect legal and illegal immigrant workers in each industry.

I was able to find average wages for 17 of these industries at the BLS website. (Table 2.) The following "scatter diagram" shows, for those 17 industries, the percent change in foreign penetration on the y (vertical) axis and the percent change in real wages on the X (horizontal) axis:

As you can see, the trend line has a downward slope, indicating that industries with above average increases in foreign penetration had below average increases in real wages.

In a word: the data confirm the notion that increased foreign worker penetration brings lower wage and income gains.

There is no dearth of American workers—just wages and working conditions that sink lower with each immigrant wave.

Edwin S. Rubenstein (email him) is President of ESR Research Economic Consultants in Indianapolis.

Good article. States the facts as they've been reported. But we know there are many more than 7,000,000 illegal workers. There are that many who file tax returns. Actually 7,200,000 last year. Then there are all the other workers working off the books and under the table. Then there are all their families and relatives.

Oh, it's just a dastardly situation. Almost incomprehensive and overwhelming.

Here is some hard data from the US Census:

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/usinterim ... tab02a.pdf

Notice how the working age population from 20 to 65 would INCREASE 35% under current trends. If McCain Kennedy passes, it will be more like a 60% increase.

If employers would cease the practice of AGE-DISCRIMINATION they wouldn't need any H-1Bs, illegals, or L-1s, we could send every damn one of 'em back to India and Mexico. Just to clarify - they don't need the H-1Bs, illegals, and L-1s any damn way.
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yes - age discrimanation- I know a 50 year old man- a vet who cant get hired for any permanent job because employers want to avoid the possibility of medical costs-
enter manpower etc-
what employers have done is marginalize a huge sector of american citizens who cannot afford to hire an attorney and fill their jobs with young illegal aliens