Thread: Libertarians In Name Only (Open Borders Utopianism)

[b]First of all, let me apologize for being derelict in addressing Will Wilkinson’s series of columns for The Economist. I had wanted to to respond to these short polemics, written as an ongoing dialogue between he and David Frum during the height of the DREAM Act’s legislative push during a lame duck session of Congress, earlier but multiple factors prevented me from doing so.

Since the focus of this site at the time was on preventing passage of DREAM, I felt that our resources could be better utilized by conveying information that you could use in persuading key senators to vote against this piecemeal amnesty, rather than rehashing the pros and cons of the bill itself.

I had intended on going back and delineating my philosophical objections to Will Wilkinson’s approach to immigration this January, but was prevented from doing so by a persistent flu bug. Now that I’m better able to marshal my arguments, I’m going to try and explain not the devastating consequences that would result from the enactment of his ideas-something that I’ve addressed at length on this site-but why those ideas are completely and utterly fraudulent. At least, when espoused by a purported “libertarian.â€

Here's a link to the actual debate between Frum and Wilkinson about the DREAM Act, for those interested:

http://www.frumforum.com/how-the-dream- ... esty-fraud

An excellent article Shapka! Thanks.

Touche to the author. He gutted the varmit!

Thank you.

I know that most libertarians would disagree strongly about Wilkinson's ideas about dissolving the nation-state. And they definitely would not agree with giving welfare to illegals. However, if the welfare state were to be dissolved, most libertarians would be more than happy to throw our borders wide open to almost anyone who is willing to work here. That does not include libertarians at this site. However, it is the position of the Libertarian Party, most of their political candidates, talking heads, party membership etc.

Originally Posted by BearFlagRepublic

I know that most libertarians would disagree strongly about Wilkinson's ideas about dissolving the nation-state. And they definitely would not agree with giving welfare to illegals. However, if the welfare state were to be dissolved, most libertarians would be more than happy to throw our borders wide open to almost anyone who is willing to work here. That does not include libertarians at this site. However, it is the position of the Libertarian Party, most of their political candidates, talking heads, party membership etc.

This was the part that most people did not understand about Ron Paul

He believed that if you get rid of all welfare , the illegals wouldn't come.

In a sense he may be right to an extent , Our handouts and freebies to illegals at this point in time are out of control.There is no doubt that is why a lot of them come , That is how they also can afford to send billions back to their home countries.

Without the freebies I doubt many of them could afford to live in Calif or any other state for that matter.

Your right Justthefacts. Sure doing away with welfare would make a significant dent. However it would be far from enough as there are multiple reasons for illegals to come here and they all need to be addressed.

1. Welfare - obvious
2. Jobs - obvious
3. Education - means more options and often free education if play it right
4. Citizenship for children - while no loyalty having citizenship means more options.

To fix the problem you at least need to address 1, 2, and 4. One could skip on 3 as that is a minimal reason but still should be addressed as well.

Originally Posted by Shapka

As far as our national sovereignty is concerned, he does not believe it exists. The Constitutionally enshrined role of our federal government to protect and maintain our nation’s territorial integrity is nothing more than a pernicious psychological quirk that has no application in the real world.

If this sounds familiar, it should. It is the same utopian fantasy propagated by radical Marxists, who also-not surprisingly-believe that there should be no impediments to unfettered immigration. At least, immigration into the wealthy, predominately capitalist nations of Western Europe and North America.

Let's add the Chamber of Commerce to that list
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Americans first in this magnificent country

American jobs for American workers

Fair trade, not free trade

Originally Posted by BearFlagRepublic

However, if the welfare state were to be dissolved, most libertarians would be more than happy to throw our borders wide open to almost anyone who is willing to work here.

Fortunately most other people believe that a government's first duty is to its own citizens.
************************************************** ***********************************
Americans first in this magnificent country

American jobs for American workers

Fair trade, not free trade

Originally Posted by vistalad

Let's add the Chamber of Commerce to that list

They are one of the worst offenders in this debate. And as Krikorian and others have pointed out, the only national business-oriented group that is consistently anti-amnesty is the National Federation of Independent Businesses. That's because they actually listen to their membership.