Thread: LIST OF AMERICANS KILLED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Since our little troll wants citations to back the alleged percentages of illegals in the prison system, I thought I would continue to oblige.

I found this one in the background info for the Border Protection, Antiterrorism and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005:

The United States has experienced a drastic increase in crime committed by illegal aliens, particularly by illegal aliens that are members of criminal gangs. These criminal alien gangs are becoming increasingly prevalent throughout the country. 3

This disturbing trend is evidenced by the growing number of Federal inmates who are non-citizens, which is rapidly approaching 25 percent of the prison population. 4


[Footnote 3: See, e.g., Immigration and the Alien Gang Epidemic: Problems and Solutions: Hearing Before the Subcomm. on Immigration, Border Security and Claims of the House Comm. on the Judiciary, 109th Cong. (2005); Heather MacDonald, The Immigrant Gang Plague, the City Journal, Summer 2004; Heather MacDonald, The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave, The City Journal, Winter 2004.]

[Footnote 4: See Paige Harrison and Jennifer Karberg, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2003, Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin at 5 (May 2004)(23.5 percent of all Federal inmates were noncitizens as of June 30, 2003).]

Funny... Even our own Congress agrees that the percentage is in the ballpark of 25%, but MrLeft knows more than all these experts.

"Approaching 25%".

Well it's at 20%, down from 27%. Interesting use of the word 'approaching'.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

And more on the percentage in prisons, with source cited:

Criminal aliens—non-citizens who commit crimes—are a growing threat to public safety and national security, as well as a drain on our scarce criminal justice resources. In 1980, our federal and state prisons housed fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. By the end of 1999, these same prisons housed over 68,000 criminal aliens.1 Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates.2 These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Over the past five years, an average of more than 72,000 aliens have been arrested annually on drug charges alone.

1. Other aliens not included in this total include immigrants who have become U.S. citizens (not included in the federal prison data), aliens being held for trial and some awaiting deportation but not convicted in the United States, e.g., the Cuban Marielitos.
2. National Institute of Corrections, Federal Bureau of Prisons, June 2003.

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Did you really just quote the Federation of American Immigration Reform? Is it 29% or the "approaching 25%" that you just hung your hat on one post ago?

Citing your souce is not the same as citing the source of the statistic. Which again, has no souce.

Rather than address all of MrLeft's insipid posts, I ask anyone reading along to note how the little man cherrypicks what he will and will not address. Where is his spin on the definitive GAO report, which I not only cite but link? Where is his rebuttal of the Bureau of Justice statistical report?

What MrLeft had been doing is attacking the messnger rather than the message, even as he attempted to cite inferior extrapolations whose own methodology statements include references to their own inherent inaccuracies. That being the case, I have cited specific government reports that don't just beat around the statistical bush, but rather provide the hard numbers for aliens in our penal system and compare them against numbers for US citizens and totals.

You won't find MrLeft addressing the GAO report, because the numbers are what they are -- there is no way to spin them by citing "rates per 100K" or other such nonsense. The GAO report places the percentage for the last available statistical year (at the time the report was written in 2005) at 27.3%. The percentage for the four years looked at (2001-2004) also happens to be 27.3%. When you have a four-year average and the last year of that period agreeing that closely, you have a pretty good number. Contrary to what illegal sympathizers like our troll here want you to believe, the percentages regularly cited by those who oppose illegal immigration are solid and are based upon numbers provided to Congress by the GAO.

Originally Posted by MrLeft

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

And more on the percentage in prisons, with source cited:

Criminal aliens—non-citizens who commit crimes—are a growing threat to public safety and national security, as well as a drain on our scarce criminal justice resources. In 1980, our federal and state prisons housed fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. By the end of 1999, these same prisons housed over 68,000 criminal aliens.1 Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates.2 These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Over the past five years, an average of more than 72,000 aliens have been arrested annually on drug charges alone.

1. Other aliens not included in this total include immigrants who have become U.S. citizens (not included in the federal prison data), aliens being held for trial and some awaiting deportation but not convicted in the United States, e.g., the Cuban Marielitos.
2. National Institute of Corrections, Federal Bureau of Prisons, June 2003.

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Did you really just quote the Federation of American Immigration Reform? Is it 29% or the "approaching 25%" that you just hung your hat on one post ago?

Citing your souce is not the same as citing the source of the statistic. Which again, has no souce.

No, I cited the National Institute of Corrections, Federal Bureau of Prisons, June 2003, as provided in the footnote.

You are cetainly a troll, because no matter what the ultimate source, you're going to attack the person quoting it. I'm sure that in the end you will laugh off the GAO report because I quoted it here on ALIPAC.

What a goof!

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

I'm enjoying this little game, so let's keep going.

How do you feel about the reliability of the GAO? It produced the report in 2005 that is most frequently cited.

Here were its findings relative to the numbers of aliens as a percentage of the prison population for 2001-2004 (page 15 of the report):

total * US citizens * aliens

2001: 154,290 * 111,866 * 42,424
2002: 161,110 * 117,037 * 44,073
2003: 170,365 * 124,302 * 46,063
2004: 178,512 * 129,804 * 48,708

That works out to 27.3% for 2004 and an average for the period of 27.3%. I would say that's pretty consistent.

Here's a link to the GAO report, titled Information on Criminal Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf

Are we getting close to being able to agree that the percentage of aliens in our prisons is something over 25%?

FEDERAL FEDERAL FEDERAL!!!!!

Worth saying 3 times as you conveniently omitted it in your post. They make no mention of the percentage in state prison.

So, they are saying 27.3% of FEDERAL inmates are noncitizens, congress is saying "approaching 25%", and that hack job of a website you sourced suggested it was 29%. The official US Dept of Justice figures suggests it is 19%. The 19% is the most recent report.

Do you see the problem?


And just for you, they cleared up an earlier point:

"criminal alieans - noncitizens convicted of crimes while in this country legally or illegally".

Oh, Steve I'm so sorry that your important post has turned into a troll war. What a shame. How many more innoscent Americans died today at the hands of illegal alines?

MrLeft really didn't want us talking about that!

Dixie

Mr.left calls us paranoid racist, that's gotta be pretty much the worn out trump card used by the left. Aren't there folks of your own ilk you can amaze with your brilliance Mr. Left ? As Slick Willy said to Monica blow me!

Thank God for Crockett'sghost

Why is it so hard for MrLeft to accept that the rising criminal rate in this country is caused by illegals?

I'm an American Indian. I don't like the statistics on Indians in jails. I don't have to like them - they're a fact. A fact which I personally can attest to. I used to be married to one who ended up in jail. I learned a lot more about the federal prison system and its inmates that I every thought I would know.

From pure personal experience, I can tell you that the two federal prisons that my ex-husband was in were starting to see massive influxes of hispanics. This was starting in 1997 thru 2001. My ex-husband would complain on a regular basis about this influx.

I saw it in the visiting rooms every Saturday and Sunday during those years. I can't address whether they were legal or not - I had no way on knowing. In many ways, that doesn't matter to me anyway.

I could care less if it were purple Venusians (legal or illegal) who were the cause of increased crime in this country. It would still be a problem. I don't give a hoot whether or not the individual is legal or illegal. The crime rate has risen, the incarceration rate has risen, REGARDLESS of the legal status. THAT is an absolutely indesputable fact. AND IT ISN'T RISING BECAUSE OF WHITES OR BLACKS.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by MrLeft

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

And more on the percentage in prisons, with source cited:

Criminal aliens—non-citizens who commit crimes—are a growing threat to public safety and national security, as well as a drain on our scarce criminal justice resources. In 1980, our federal and state prisons housed fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. By the end of 1999, these same prisons housed over 68,000 criminal aliens.1 Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates.2 These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Over the past five years, an average of more than 72,000 aliens have been arrested annually on drug charges alone.

1. Other aliens not included in this total include immigrants who have become U.S. citizens (not included in the federal prison data), aliens being held for trial and some awaiting deportation but not convicted in the United States, e.g., the Cuban Marielitos.
2. National Institute of Corrections, Federal Bureau of Prisons, June 2003.

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Did you really just quote the Federation of American Immigration Reform? Is it 29% or the "approaching 25%" that you just hung your hat on one post ago?

Citing your souce is not the same as citing the source of the statistic. Which again, has no souce.

No, I cited the National Institute of Corrections, Federal Bureau of Prisons, June 2003, as provided in the footnote.

You are cetainly a troll, because no matter what the ultimate source, you're going to attack the person quoting it. I'm sure that in the end you will laugh off the GAO report because I quoted it here on ALIPAC.

What a goof!

One by one.

The NIC citation, is the GAO report you just used. They put the figure at 27.3%. The 29% is therefore a lie. Yes? http://www.nicic.org/Library/020506

The Federal Bureau of Prisons put out one report in June 03, and that was "A Review of the Treatment of Aliens Held on Immigration Charges in Connection with the Investigation of the September 11 Attacks" http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/BOP/index.htm It is a very long report, and I certainly can find no mention of 29% in it. There isn't even a section examining such things.

The site EXAGGERATED the numbers. Or lied if you prefer. That is why I'm refuse to believe any source that doesn't link it's citation to a particular stat.

Rather than address all of MrLeft's insipid posts, I ask anyone reading along to note how the little man cherrypicks what he will and will not address. Where is his spin on the definitive GAO report, which I not only cite but link? Where is his rebuttal of the Bureau of Justice statistical report?

Some more questions:

Just why did you delete the word "federal" from the GAO report statistics? Is it because you wanted to pass it off as federal and state combined?

What MrLeft had been doing is attacking the messnger rather than the message, even as he attempted to cite inferior extrapolations whose own methodology statements include references to their own inherent inaccuracies. That being the case, I have cited specific government reports that don't just beat around the statistical bush, but rather provide the hard numbers for aliens in our penal system and compare them against numbers for US citizens and totals.

You're right, realitycheck.org, the federation for immigration reform, and Lou Dobbs himself, are not only more reliable sources than the US Dept of Justice, but they are in fact "government reports".

I sure do hope nobody sees through me.

You won't find MrLeft addressing the GAO report, because the numbers are what they are -- there is no way to spin them by citing "rates per 100K" or other such nonsense. The GAO report places the percentage for the last available statistical year (at the time the report was written in 2005) at 27.3%. The percentage for the four years looked at (2001-2004) also happens to be 27.3%. When you have a four-year average and the last year of that period agreeing that closely, you have a pretty good number. Contrary to what illegal sympathizers like our troll here want you to believe, the percentages regularly cited by those who oppose illegal immigration are solid and are based upon numbers provided to Congress by the GAO.

Haha or you'll find MrLeft has already addressed the GAO report, where he called you out for deliberately corrupting the statistic.

6.4% = the percentage of inmates in federal and state facilities that are noncitizens (both illegal and legal). That is the fact.