Thread: The lying propaganda begins

Here is something you might find interesting. Jim Ludwick of Oregonians for Immigration Reform was at several of the town hall meetings with Senator Gordon Smith, here is what I received from OFIR:

Reports on Sen. Smith’s Town Halls

1. Madras and Prineville

I am just returned from the meetings with Senator Smith and thought I should get this report done quickly.

Immigration reform was indeed the hot topic, and the first topic, discussed in both places, though in Madras we first had a back room meeting with farmers. I was able to directly converse with the senator on both occasions. In Prineville the crowd was openly and boisterously in favor of serious immigration reform and understood the amnesty situation, though I could see in the crowd some eyes pop when I was talking with the senator and mentioned that in 1986 congress already passed an amnesty bill with the promise that this would be the end of amnesty.

The good senator had a response for this. He said that everyone had a different definition of amnesty! He also pointed out to the crowd that this was a "between a rock and a hard place" situation and that whatever stand he took someone would be mad at him. He then provided a history lesson on how this debate has been going on for a long time - since the country's founding - and he said the same concerns were raised about Chinese, Irish, etc. etc.

I countered with a history lesson as well: that historically the numbers were about 200,000 per year but that things were different now. Now the number is 2 million per year. The senator left a long pause... so I continued that this was not about any ethnic or racial group, it was about the huge numbers. I then said this issue was studied extensively by the "Jordan Commission" - the US Commission on Immigration Reform chaired by former congresswoman Barbara Jordan. The Senator looked genuinely perplexed. So I pointed out who Barbara Jordan was and that the commission she chaired made two major recommendations: One to have a positive identification system, the second to have employer sanctions. The Senator said he had not heard of that commission and that he was probably "picking peas in Pendleton at the time", which was probably true. I pointed out that Canada has a system of strict employer sanctions. The senator made no comment but the crowd was loud on this one so I quit.


We continued this conversation when we got to Madras. Again, I brought up to the group the Jordan Commission. This time the senator was ready for me and focused on the ID issue and said that conservatives in congress killed it. I pointed out that this would be a good time to get it right. Unfortunately, I was unable to interject something about employer sanctions because - at least to my mind - he was deliberately avoiding this issue. But in a sense, so was I because I was in a room full of my neighbors who I know hire illegals and I farm all day, often alone, on my place that is remote from everyone and I need to be able to fight another day.

I did have a pointed conversation with a young woman on his staff and she said they would get a copy of the Jordan Commission report for the Senator. I also mentioned to her that the senator had an "F" rating. She took genuine offense to this and said that the rating was "bogus" because the senator never had a chance to vote on a number of the issues used in the rating.

The public town hall meeting in Madras was less focused on immigration and there were a number of folks in the crowd wearing T shirts showing they were in favor of immigrant "rights". The room still had many farmers who I know use illegals.

I never had an opportunity to ask him about working to avoid a despicable situation of congress waiting until after the election to do an amnesty.

Oh yes, the senator did offer the quip that various radio talk show hosts are "ideologues" on the issue and they try to over simplify.

I forgot to mention another exchange between the senator and myself: He was going on about how terrible it is in Mexico, the corruption, etc. and that some people say we should take over Mexico.

So I countered that our current policy is enabling this dysfunction in the same way one enables a drunk by giving them alcohol. It is immoral, it hurts everyone. I said we would be doing the people of Mexico a favor by forcing them to clean up their act. ( I did not mention having one or two children and doing a good job with them. It was the wrong audience.)

The senator made no response.

I wish now that I had followed up by pointing out that if the people coming here from Mexico (or where ever) are accustomed to the corruption and the everything-for-the-patron society, what makes the congress think they will change when they get here? Are they bringing that same corrupt culture with them? Could it be the same as the Cicilani maffiosi and the Italian neighborhood I grew up in in New York State? I am tempted to make this argument in a letter to him. My problem perhaps is I have never felt Gordon Smith to be a real leader, especially after we sat together at a political ribbon-cutting train ride in Portland. I've never seen him put his nose to much of any grindstone except to promote Gordon Smith. Anyway...

I was planning to be sending the senator a personal typed letter on the subject of the Jordan Commission and especially about employer sanctions. I believe both of our Oregon senators know very well what it would take to effectively address this issue (employer sanctions) but they are playing coy.

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2. Prineville

I wanted to give you an account of the Senator Gordon Smith Town Hall meeting in Prineville, Oregon on April 12. The small room in the city hall could barely hold the 75 or so people who were standing along the walls and filling the doorway. Smith entered and said how busy everything in congress right now especially with the immigration debate. He was pretty mealy-mouthed but to paraphrase what he said next, it was how this problem was testing everybody’s desire “to discern the issue, reach a consensus and create a humane solution.” Then he immediately asked for questions.

I jumped up and suggested that in his quest to discern a solution he might consult the law. A few people chuckled. Then I asked why he voted against two border patrol spending increases last year, facts I got from the Numbers USA voting record. He looked at me rather blankly and said that he hadn’t voted against them. I read him the numbers of those bills but he just said that my information was incorrect and that he would never vote against border security.

Before I got a chance to ask him whether he’d vote for a pathway to citizenship on the current guest worker bill, another woman in front of me jumped up and demanded that we close the border. She complained that one of her Head Start students liked to tell her that her family flipped off officers from “La Migra” whenever they came to their house. She likened that attitude to the marchers in L.A. as they arrogantly “flipped off” citizens and U.S. laws. At that, the rest of the room started applauding. These people were angry!

Smith nodded and smiled and took a third comment. This woman wanted to talk about . . . immigration! She said she was furious that we have “an invasion masquerading as immigration.” More clapping.

At this point senator Smith tried to draw a parallel between immigration today and the great Irish, German and Italian influx of the 1800’s. But a man in the audience wasn’t buying it. He said, “Putting this in the old European context is wrong because they didn’t arrive illegally and we’re suffering from much higher numbers now.” This time the WHOLE room burst into sustained applause.

I was impressed by the articulate and well-informed crowd. But Smith is very practiced at the political art of sidestepping and said that the problem of dealing with the current crop of illegals is that “amnesty is in the eye of the beholder” and that no matter what solution a congressman offered it was going to “make the other side angry” Which side he was talking about wasn’t obvious. Like I said, he’s pretty guarded and mealy-mouthed, but I was surprised when he said there’s no doubt a wall going to be built.

Unfortunately, the next woman wanted to talk about oil companies, then a man complained about the war, and every question after that was about a different subject. I had to leave for an appointment back in the valley but there was a man sitting behind me who I knew had one more question to ask about immigration because we were talking to each other before the session began. In summary, we had five questions about immigration and a whole room applauding in agreement, while no other subject came up twice while I was there.

My general impression is that Gordon Smith’s idea of a “humane consensus” is whatever illegal aliens or their supporters will accept. But he must have noticed that virtually everyone in the room was ANGRY about illegal immigration. I will follow up by sending him another letter.
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3. Prineville

I just got home from Prineville.

I rode a motorcycle 7 hours, 322 miles (up over Mt. Hood) to hear Senator Gordon Smith talk for 1 hour today.

I will say the Junior Senator is much more at ease and in his element when speaking to a group of people from Central Oregon than when he’s speaking to… … …Lars.

Senator Smith didn’t waste any time jumping into the topic du jour. Once the gratuitous back patting stopped he went right to the subject of Illegal Immigration. He opened by saying that there is nothing right now that has Washington’s ear more than Illegal Immigration.

To hear him speak, one would assume he is steadfastly against illegal immigration. He is! The problem is, his solution. I believe he and others think that making the current batch of illegals “Presto – No longer illegal” is the solution. Unfortunately, I was never able to get called on to address this with him. Throughout the entire Town Hall Meeting he used a lot of political “speak”. Phrases like, “I am completely against that and I’ll do everything I can to Blah Blah Blah…” and “I know I’m going to upset half of you and make the other half happy.”

He never touched on sanctions for employers that hire illegals, or criminal prosecution for illegals, deportation or the like.

He did say that he has voted for the fence between Mexico and the U.S., and will again when it comes up. It is his belief that the illegals will just go to Canada and cross the Canadian border into the U.S.

As we only had an hour (actually less Senator Smith was about 15 minutes late), I would say he spent more time on the subject of Illegal Immigration than any other.

Overall, I give him 2 soggy slices on the Milk Toast scale. It really appeared to me to be just “face-time” with his constituency.

I will say, the guy is good. He’d say something and initially I would think, “Hey this guy’s on the team!” Then I’d think about how he said what he said, and it turns out, he didn’t say anything one way or the other! One old guy that looked to be about 90 asked Senator Smith, “Hey, can’t you just answer a question without making a speech out of it?” Probably the highlight of the day.

The bad news is, if you’re in the back of the room with a camcorder, tri-pod, briefcase and printed literature like his grades and other statistics on Immigration reform laid out on a table for people to take it seems he won’t call on you no matter what you do, because you might be someone that knows something.

It’s been a heck of a day. I’m going to go have a little Glenmorangie 12-year-old Port Wood, an Ashton Corona and sleep like a baby.
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4. Madras

I just got back from the townhall meeting in Madras with Senator Smith.

I took a notepad to make notes if anything "important" was said, and I came back with blank pages. The townhall meeting was lukewarm at best. Many questions were asked, mostly about illegal immigration, and every answer from Senator Smith was along the line of, "I'm trying my best to get the Senate to pass the legislation you want." He stated that the legislation before the Senate right now would mandate building a fence to protect our border with Mexico. He made that statement several times. And he kept saying that whatever legislation they passed, it had to be "humanitarian" toward the 11 million illegals who are here. He indicated that "it would take buses lined up all the way from San Diego to Alaska" to deport 11 million people and we just couldn't think of doing that.

When someone asked him about the huge numbers of illegals here, he stated that the Border Patrol had caught 6 million trying to cross the border in the last 4 years. He made a big point of that. "Has anyone here heard that figure? We stopped 6 million in just the last four years." Like that is something to be proud of. That should scare us all. The Border Patrol admits they catch one out of four at the most. Many estimates of "the ones that got away" are much higher. But even using 1 in 4, that means 18 MILLION got past them in just the last four years.

I did hear "whisperings" in the small crowd when he was answering the questions. I got the feeling that nobody was satisfied with his answers and many contradicted what he said to their neighbors. All in all, it was a bit like eating cold oatmeal, without the honey.






WELL, AS YOU ALL CAN SEE, THIS ONE IS GREAT AT ACTUALLY AVOIDING ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS. LIKED THAT PART ABOUT THE OLD MAN WHO ASKED GORDON SMITH, "CAN'T YOU EVER JUST ANSWER A QUESTION WITHOUT MAKING A SPEECH OUT OF IT?". HAH!!!!!

great posts

He was going on about how terrible it is in Mexico, the corruption, etc. and that some people say we should take over Mexico.

guess he was saying Mexico would fit right in with Washington

Originally Posted by lsmith1338

I have barraged his office with emails each week, just to make a point that american citizens will not tolerate his liberal view of amnesty to get votes

Me too!

I don't suppose that his attitude of amnesty would have anything to do with Smith frozen foods and his personal agenda for employees that work for him. I know he claims all his employees are legal citizens. I would have to ask if the other people in their homes also are? But a great post and awesome effort that shows the dedication it will take to accomplish our goals. I think its time for the people in his district to get Smith out as he will not change his stance and listen to the people.

AmericanElizabeth
That was good ... very good...

Like Jim Ludwick said, he is Gordon Smith is lukewarm, at best, kind if like having cold oatmeal with no honey.

That was his nice way of saying that Gordon Smith is a BAD politician and does not represent the citizens who voted him in at all.

And what about Ron Wyden? Well, let's just say he is a spineless, politically correct, pandering liberal. He replied to me one time that he did not want to discriminate against anyone!! Well, yeah I mean they all have rights, they voted for him, right? NOT!!! What a pansy.

Just sent my email.
Anyone have the addy to Hillary Clinton's office?