Thread: Massive tax package offers breaks for just about everyone

Originally Posted by MW

You're absolutely right, johnwk, passing the unfair tax plan before repealing the 16th amendment is akin to placing the cart before the horse. It's a a bad idea and very risky. Actually there are many problem with the unfair tax. Your valid point is just one on a long list. Not to worry, the plan has been floating around for many years but never seems to get the traction it's supporters want or need (that's a good thing).

That's funny! In 1913, they passed the income tax bill first, and then passed the 16th Amendment to make it legal. So now you want us to tell the States to repeal the 16th Amendment first rendering the income tax illegal, without having a sales tax bill to replace it. That's a sure fire way to shut down the federal government. How long would you be willing to wait for your checks while Congress is working out the details of an alternative plan?

I think the way we're doing it is the right way. You pass the FairTax, then send the States the Amendment to repeal the 16th Amendment and some will ratify right away, others will wait and see how the FairTax works, meanwhile the States are all making money off the FairTax collection fee, and industries are moving home and investment is pouring in from offshore, Americans are getting their good jobs back, incomes are rising, poverty is declining, and those States that were slow to ratify will say "Oh my God, why didn't we do this years ago?" and the reason of course that they didn't is because of the deflections, misrepresentations, deceptions, misinformation and their own general ignorance of the entire topic and subject matter.

So people can continue to whine and complain and put up with the consequences as our country sinks into irreparable bankruptcy and despair, or they can wake up and start taking actions to reverse the policies that have caused this disaster including chief among them, the elimination of the income tax and replacing it with a national retail sales tax on new goods and services. So far, the best and only such plan is the FairTax, HR 25 in the US House of Representatives and S 155 in the US Senate.

Originally Posted by Judy

That's funny! In 1913, they passed the income tax bill first, and then passed the 16th Amendment to make it legal. So now you want us to tell the States to repeal the 16th Amendment first rendering the income tax illegal, without having a sales tax bill to replace it. That's a sure fire way to shut down the federal government. How long would you be willing to wait for your checks while Congress is working out the details of an alternative plan?

I think the way we're doing it is the right way. You pass the FairTax, then send the States the Amendment to repeal the 16th Amendment and some will ratify right away, others will wait and see how the FairTax works, meanwhile the States are all making money off the FairTax collection fee, and industries are moving home and investment is pouring in from offshore, Americans are getting their good jobs back, incomes are rising, poverty is declining, and those States that were slow to ratify will say "Oh my God, why didn't we do this years ago?" and the reason of course that they didn't is because of the deflections, misrepresentations, deceptions, misinformation and their own general ignorance of the entire topic and subject matter.

So people can continue to whine and complain and put up with the consequences as our country sinks into irreparable bankruptcy and despair, or they can wake up and start taking actions to reverse the policies that have caused this disaster including chief among them, the elimination of the income tax and replacing it with a national retail sales tax on new goods and services. So far, the best and only such plan is the FairTax, HR 25 in the US House of Representatives and S 155 in the US Senate.

So even you admit there is no guarantee the 16th Amendment would be repealed.

Originally Posted by MW

So even you admit there is no guarantee the 16th Amendment would be repealed.

Absolutely. There's no guarantee what the States will do. Why would there be? Each state is free to make their own decision to ratify the repeal or not. But failing to repeal the 16th Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with eliminating income based taxes and replacing them with a national retail sales tax. That is solely within the power of Congress to do, they can do it in 30 minutes, a 15 minute roll call vote in each Chamber, and a majority of the quorum in each Chamber, makes the income tax null and void as a matter of law, and the FairTax the law of the land.

I'm like the FairTax designers who didn't tie the two together. The plan is that as soon as the FairTax is passed, a second legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment will be passed and sent to the States. But that repeal legislation may not pass Congress, because you need a 2/3 majority vote in each Chamber just to get the legislation through Congress before it can even be sent to the States. Since 1789, there have been 11,000 attempts to amend the US Constitution and only 27 have passed and been ratified, so the odds are not with a desire to repeal the 16th Amendment.

Fortunately, a repeal of the 16th Amendment is not required to pass the FairTax, the FairTax legislation repeals the income tax as a matter of law and replaces it with the national retail sales tax. To pass the FairTax legislation which repeals the income tax by law only requires a simple majority vote in each Chamber. So I've never understood the obsession with repealing the 16th Amendment as a condition of repealing the income tax laws and replacing them with the FairTax through legislation. I mean it's possible and feasible once all the States are experiencing the many benefits of the FairTax, but even then, 2/3 vote in each Chamber of Congress and 3/4 of the States? Possible and likely, but not very likely or probable. Democrats will cling to their beloved income tax like matted hair on a stray cat.

Congress has the power to pass the FairTax legislation, and there's really no excuse that it hasn't already been passed. The corruption in our Congress is a truth that is self-evident, and it will take a real leaders to pass it. Unfortunately, we don't have any in Congress. Maybe when Trump is President, he'll be the leader who can get it done. The legislation has 75 co-sponsors in the US House of Representatives alone, so it has more than ample support to pass the House, but it's been buried in the Ways and Means Committee for 16 years without debate or a floor vote. By comparison, Obama Care had 8 co-sponsors. But the Democrats had leadership so they pushed it through.

Republicans aren't electing the right people to Congress. Something is very wrong with our process and the type of people we're sending to DC. Republicans in North Carolina sent Thom Tillis to DC as a US Senator, yet he not only supported and voted for this massive increase in H2B visas, he co-sponsored the Amendment. My county has 10% unemployment. So more H2B visa immigrants are going to be competing with these poor people who have been out of work for years. Tillis needs to be kicked to the curb his next election. What a disgrace. But he's Pro-Life and opposes gay marriage. Well, so what, Tom? Don't have an abortion and don't marry a gay person. What in the hell does your personal bigotry have to do with running the federal government and representing North Carolina? Well, obviously, not a damn thing.