Thread: Mexican Claims to Southwestern U.S. Lands Spurious

Having witnessed the effects of all but unchecked illegal immigration of Mexicans into the Southwest United States and listening to what the Mainstream Media refers to as the 'debate' on the topic, there are several persistent themes I have wondered about when listening to pro-immigrant supporters. Of late I have perused and very soberly examined several sources that conclusively prove the claims of the pro-immigration crowd and so-called Reconquista supporters are spurious and not based upon facts.


One assertion the pro-immigrant and pro-illegal crowd often advances is that what is now the southwest United States was ancestral lands of the Indians that later constituted what are now known as Mexicans after extensively intermarrying with the Spanish. In short, the modern Mexican state implies and many Mexicans outright assert the lands of the Southwest United States were theirs and were stolen through conquest by Americans and supporters of the nascent Texas Republic. Not true at all. When the Spanish arrived in the lands that now constitute modern Mexico, the Indian indigenous and aboriginal population was centered in the areas referred to by geographers and historians as Mesa Central and Oaxaca, far from the Rio Grande and the modern U.S.-Mexico border.


No people that consider themselves Mexicans today nor any of the Indian tribes or clans that intermarried with the Spanish heavily in central Mexico were anywhere near what is now the Southwest United States. In fact what became the Southwest United States was inhabited in 1528 -- the onset of Spanish rule in Mexico -- by North American plains and agricultural Indians. The tribes then arrayed along what became the modern border were: Yuma, Maricopa, Chiricahua, San Carlos, Mescalero, Comanche, Apache, Tonkawan and Karankawa. I am not aware that any current members of those tribes claim any affiliation with Mexico or claim to have Mexican citizenship rights.


The tribes that later became the slaves of the Spanish and, technically, Mexican through intermarriage with the Spanish and members of the Spanish colony of Mexico were: Opata, Seri, Tarahumare, Yaqui, Mayo and Teperhuanes. Those tribes were settled mostly in temperate central Mexico and had no holdings anywhere near the Modern U.S.-Mexican border. It was through the establishment of the encomiendero and hacienda economic systems that took the Spanish and many of their subservient aboriginal Mexicans to the less arable lands north and east toward the Rio Grande and the area of the modern Gadsden Purchase. No aboriginal peoples who later came to constitute the ancient or modern Mexican state resided in the lands that became modern California, Arizona, New Mexico or Texas. The area of modern Mexico referred to by the Spanish as Mesa Del Norte and constitutes the modern Mexican states of Chihuahua, Coahuila, Durango and Sonora were, in 1540, sparsely populated due to the desert climate and annual rainfall of less than 10 inches per year.


By 1572 there were some 507 Spanish-ruled encomiendas in Mexico and were concentrated in the regions known as Mesa Central in Yucatan and on the Oaxaca Plateau – far, far from any lands that became the modern American nation. What finally took the Spanish and their ancient Mexican slaves farther north was the introduction of cattle and horses from Spain. This spurred a northward movement, though not to any lands that later became America, to the grasslands north of modern Mexico City that were able to support domesticated livestock. These facts alone undermine the claim of many that the Southwestern United States were somehow always ancestral lands of aboriginal Mexicans. By 1810, though, the encomiendas and haciendas In the areas north of Oaxaca had not done well, speaking to the fact the aboriginal Mexicans never had an incentive to move north and into lands that later became the American Southwest. The land in northern Mexico and south of the modern international border was – and still is – very poor and not suited to the agricultural systems of the aboriginal Mexicans. The Spanish in 1810 recorded 4944 substantial holdings in Mexico of the hacienda and estancia de ganado (cattle stations) types. Of those holdings 79 were in the eastern provincial areas of Nuevo LÑ

Welcome to ALIPAC ChrisTheMediocre!

That IS a very accurate account. One could say that the US liberated the North American Indian tribes from Mexican oppression. And when Mexicans revolted against Spain their own government became so turbulent and unstable that a lot of people who had settled in Texas and the Southwest didn't want to be a part of it. They opted to join the US.

Duplicate:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-reply-142915.html

Originally Posted by MW

Duplicate:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-reply-142915.html

MW have you checked that link...how wierd

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

Originally Posted by MW

Duplicate:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-reply-142915.html

MW have you checked that link...how wierd

im thinking this is what MW meant to put

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-142915.html

The post above was submitted as letters to the editor at many MSM outlets. The La Times refused, the NYT never answered back and the Arizona Republic implied there is 'hate speech' contained therein and inflammatory rhetoric.

Oh, really ?

The forces of PC still trump most other voices.

All we have to do is wait. We have all read how the MSM is melting down faster than ever before. Heck, with the Big Three no longer holding us hostage and us able to seek our own alternative news sources to the MSM, the MSM has become superfluous.

There are about three times the number of MSM outlets extant than are needed. But the MSM doesn't think in terms of much shrinkage in what used to be their monopoly. In their view, the MSM is UTTERLY VITAL to every U.S. citizen they think they are the only ones who can adequately explain the world to us little people.

Fine. Let them think that and remain in hard core denial. The MSM will continue to deny and deny -- all the way to bankruptcy and liquidation. The MS outlets converting to Internet-only publishing are the defeated ones and the list grows month by month...

This business-cycle downturn is going to put a lot more of them under, too...