Thread: NJ: Anti-Immigrants Rally Prompts Debate About Rights

Anti-immigrant rally prompts debate about rights

Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 08/24/07
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Gill Bates: I'd like to correct Police Chief Lawson. He said "Lakewood has a large number of undocumented residents . . ." Chief, Lakewood has a large group of illegal immigrants. Apparently knowing you have a large population of criminals and doing something about it has escaped you.

charlotte: You have got to be kidding me . . . Now the legal citizens cannot protest because of the militarized illegal alien gangs.

I can understand the position (somewhat) in the interest of safety. However, this should send a huge wake-up call to the legal population in this state that we are under attack. Our rights of free speech (to ask that our laws be upheld) are under attack.

Where do we send the check to hire a private security detail so that our voices might be heard? What's next?

njisokbyme: Would many people object to local and state police declaring an all-out war, with termination on sight of all of these gang members taking over local towns and turning police chiefs into whimpering cowards who forget who they serve?

HeavyW: This makes my blood boil. If you tried to stop immigrants from having a rally in Lakewood, they would scream: "discrimination!" and "racism!"

Now, an American citizen with a legitimate point of view can't even voice her views in her own town.

Why does Lakewood bow to these people? This is outrageous! Something is very, very wrong here.

christian: This is a complete travesty. Total injustice. How long will it be before we're a minority in our own country? We must be almost there already, I'm sure.

Torcher: They should just move the rally to someplace else, like, um, the muster zone that was built on Swarthmore Avenue in the Industrial Park across from the airport. The illegals can't get there by bike . . . it's too far and too dangerous. At least the $35,000 to build it would have been used for something. And for your information, Aug. 25 is a Saturday. No rallies on the Sabbath. So it has been said, so it shall be done.

MISSMOOHERSELF: If illegal aliens had a rally, then you know the township would find whatever it needed to ensure security for the crowd and speakers. But because this is a rally decrying the presence of illegal aliens, the needed security cannot be found.

The mayor might do well to find what is needed, instead of caving in to Hispanic interests (and let's face it, like it or not, a great majority of the illegals are from Mexico and Central America). If people are outraged by muster zones, sanctuary cities and churches that provide haven for lawbreakers, they have every right to express that outrage.

I don't care who benefits by the presence of illegal aliens and who would lose most if they were gone. The point is, they are here illegally and they should be deported legally. And people who are opposed to the presence of illegal aliens and their bicycles (I can't tell you how many times I've nearly hit one because he doesn't know how to ride a bike properly or he's hard to see at 6:30 in the morning) have every right to speak and protest, with the same guarantee of safety and freedom that apparently is afforded the illegal aliens and their misguided supporters.

sickofstupidity: At the risk of sounding so stupid, what is the muster zone and what is it used for?

When the illegals carried out their protest, the schools in Lakewood were practically empty. Even some of the children's parents who became citizens and did it the right way kept their kids home in protest. We need to take back America.

charlotte: A muster zone is where (illegal) day laborers can assemble and stand to wait for employers to pick them up (illegally). Lakewood spent approximately $37,000 for a muster zone in the industrial area due to the fact that business owners downtown were complaining about loitering, public urination, etc. The illegal aliens, however, protested the muster zone and have refused to use it.

Bern: Talk is cheap. But the reality is we have 20,000 illegals in Lakewood. They don't own the houses so we have all these landlords renting to them. (Illegals don't own the houses or apartments). And I bet a lot of these landlords also complain about illegals. But being greedy, they'll still rent. Just hand over the cash and I'll close my eyes.

loismustdie0692: Thank you for having the courage to say what so many of us real Americans are feeling. This country is going down the toilet and the illegal aliens in this country are a big part of the problem. But political correctness is the other. How is it that our government can protect the free speech of a bunch of illegals, but true citizens have no right to assemble peacefully.

I am truly appalled at the township's disregard for our citizens' rights to free speech, using the lame excuse of the expense. Does the county Prosecutor's Office not provide free legal service for those who cannot afford an attorney, yes, because it is a legal right. A right just like freedom of speech.

The mayor of Lakewood should be ashamed of himself for stripping citizens of their rights because of a fear of reprisal by illegal aliens. I can't believe that citizens' rights are discarded, while illegal aliens are permitted to flaunt the fact that they are breaking the law in the faces of our police officers. These dedicated officers are told by their superiors to not arrest these people because it's too much paperwork and INS (now called ICE for Immigration Customs Enforcement) won't do anything about them anyway.

The current state of our nation is sickening and it is unfortunate for those of us who love this country and are feeling forced out. We need a real plan for dealing with this problem, not just turning a blind eye.

Revolver44: You're not supposed to call them "illegal aliens" in Lakewood. The mayor has determined that the term is demeaning to them and the term "undocumented worker" is a more sensitive one. He also said the term "employment services area" is more humane than "work muster zone."

Lakewood is a trailblazer in accommodating illegals. It makes you wonder how many local politicians own rental property in Lakewood and just what the code enforcement officer has been doing.

Blueguy: HeavyW, I applaud that somebody wants to do something to combat the problem of illegals. It is a definite problem and I don't have the answers on how it should be handled.

As far as the rally itself, if they wanted more security, they could have hired police for the rally. . . . To staff the rally would have drawn officers away from other assignments and possibly affected the other residents of the town as officers assigned to the rally would not be available for emergency calls. I don't think the town is going to spend the money to hire officers on overtime for a private rally.

I don't know of any police who cater to illegals. We do our best to treat them humanely and fairly, but it is certainly aggravating dealing with them sometimes. Where I work, we often deal with them for driving offenses. Being that they don't have licenses, we can only ticket them and impound their vehicle, knowing that most times they will not appear in court.

There are no laws that we can enforce to detain them. In the past, I called INS (before they were reformed to ICE) to let them know what we had and was basically laughed at. There's not much locals can do unless they commit a serious crime. And even then, if a judge lets them go on bail, our hands are tied.

I do hope some law changes are made so we can deal with this as we are most often the ones out there (not ICE).

Bern: Revolver44, I wonder if the landlords helped push for the muster zones. HeavyW reminded us about the lawsuit and who the landlords are. Always follow the money trail.

Diane (Reeves) hasn't shown much courage to be so easily intimidated by rumors. Which doesn't reflect well on the citizens militia. Is their motto, "If the going gets tough, we run"? Maybe, they need a new leader in Lakewood.

Revolver44: A cable guy told me he's been in some of those houses. He said the Mexicans use cardboard to divide the basements into tiny cubicles with a dirty mattress in each one. They poke holes in the cardboard to run extension cords through. I don't think I've ever met a Mexican who I didn't like, except for the one I caught trying to steal my brand new Mongoose in Belmar.

But when you get too many of them in one area, they start to live like they're in Mexico and the standard of living in New Jersey takes a nosedive. Now it's too late to fix it and the guilty parties (politicians, landlords and employers) have already made their profits. It won't be long before we start seeing corrugated tin shacks underneath the bridges that will probably collapse on them.

kenneth leonard: How many of y'all can say you have never used any illegals for cheap labor? You know, landscaping, painting, gardening? Now they are supposed to disappear until needed again. No jobs, no money, no reason to stay. . . . So, employers and homeowners take a look at yourself before blaming someone else. No jobs, no reason to stay.

ilikepink: We, as taxpayers, have a right to let our state elected officials, our federal goverment and all the illegals in this country know that we do not want undocumented people in our towns, state or country. I am tired, as many citizens are, of illegals having rights that overpower the legal citizens of our country.

Why couldn't we Americans voice our opinions? When the Mexicans were waving the Mexican flag in the U.S., we Americans waved the American flag with pride. We should not be stopped because the local politicians are afraid to offend illegals. If the illegals are offended, then go back out the same way you came in, and don't let the door hit you in the (rear). Sorry, illegals, I don't feel sorry for you. Go back home and demand that your own country take care of you. Hold the marches in your own capital city and demand the rights from your own government that you demand from our government. It's time we Americans stand up to these people and demand our politicians listen to our demands. If they don't, please vote for politicians who will listen to us Americans. I'm tired of them all.

Oh, and Kenneth Leonard, I for one do not use illegals to paint, landscape or anything else. With the taxes I have to pay to give the illegals all their perks, I can't afford to hire anyone to do these jobs. My husband and two sons do all our work. And if I could afford to hire someone, it would be someone here who's legal, trying to survive in N.J.

Betsyperk: My husband and I make a concerted effort to not knowingly utilize the services of anyone who employs undocumented immigrants, including cleaning services, car washes, tree trimmers, etc. We ask the question. If they don't like it, fine. It's not that difficult to boycott these types of businesses. The price we pay is basically the same as those that utilize legal immigrant workers. These employers don't pass the savings on to us. They just have larger profit margins.

Bern: I agree, Betsy. You're ethical. Some aren't. I can't see why some fail to see this distinction. It's the business owners and landlords who are the problem. They made the illegals welcome. The large numbers of illegals in Lakewood are drawn by landlords willing to rent to them. There is no excuse for that.

appalled: The guy who used to mow our lawn sent his guys a few weeks back to cut the grass. Both spoke no English. My husband asked them if he could see their Green Cards. Neither could produce one. He sent them away. Today we went out and bought a lawnmower. We'll do it ourselves rather than hire someone who uses illegals.

finstersmom: To ilikepink, betsyperk, you both summed it up. Complaining to one another is getting nowhere. Everyone needs to write to those who are elected to office, from your local town council to your county leaders to your state leaders to the leaders in Washington. Don't wait for them to respond. Keep flooding them with your concerns. I'm there with you all.

marinevet: If they were all from countries that had ties to terrorism, we wouldn't have this problem. But, hey, someone did say within the next 20 years or so, America would be another third-world country. Thank you, Mr. President.

kenneth leonard: Maybe if Ms. Reeves would get more groups and guest speakers involved, and ask for help with security, she probaly would get it. Just don't get involved with any hate groups. There are a lot of Americans who are plain tired of illegals, crime, corruption, etc. And that includes ones from all walks of life, all races, all political parties, unions, churches. You don't have to love each other. Just come together for common causes.

mrd: Some of the comments here are scary. I worked in restaurants putting myself through school and know the Mexicans as hard-working, family-oriented people. Many of the posts here speak of them as if they are garbage. That's really awful.

My mom lives in Freehold, where this is obviously a huge deal. "Too many of them," she said. "And they crowd into those houses." So, coming from a large Italian family, I asked mom about her own home as a child. Ten people (two parents with eight kids) living in a two-bedroom home. Hard workers, too. How is it that we forget our own histories?

IfIknewthen: I just had two relatives who lived in this country for a number of years apply for citizenship. They went through the process of filling out forms, taking a test and paying a nominal fee. They received their citizenship papers in a few months. Of course, they were here legally to begin with. They were gainfully employed and are law-abiding good people.

The system is not broken. The system works for those who want to use it. The only solution to illegals is to hit the employers hard with fines and prison terms for repeat offenders. Dry up the job market and they will go home or follow the legal path to citizenship.

Copy This: Lakewood is a dead town. It is a textbook case of urban decay and the effects of unchecked immigration.

We have spent trillions on the "war on poverty" since the mid-'60s and have nothing to show for it. You can throw money at problems all day. The only cures for Lakewood, or the whole country for that matter, are accountability and education.

Torcher: Why can't the rally be held at the township-owned First Energy Park? Does it really have to be held in "Red Square"? Also, can't it be held on a Sunday? I really think the gang activity threat is a scapegoat and it really hinges on being held on the Sabbath. It wouldn't be the first time in Lakewood. It sure won't be the last.

If they really want to move the muster zone, I think they could have put it at the new $27 million John J. Franklin public works complex, without building anything. Just stand on the side of the road (like they do now) and put out a couple of the porta-potties that they have at that complex already. It is about 1.25 miles closer to town, the east side where the majority of the workers live. (I see the mass convergence to town about 7 a.m. when I drive through town.) The Lakewood bus can drop off conveniently there, and the workers who walk or ride bikes can use the trails/roads that run through Lake Shenandoah park off Route 88, where a lot of the workers live, to get to the complex.

EdwardAllen: Diane Reeves, stay strong. There are millions of sovereign Americans in this fight with you against the South American army infiltrating our country unabated. The illegal alien invasion is being used as a tool to undermine America's sovereignty. . . . I'm from New Jersey and haven't heard a peep about this threat by the Mexican gangs against legal sovereign Americans and their right to assemble peacefully. . . . You need to throw out the mayor and vote in a new sheriff if they will not address the illegal alien invasion of Lakewood and their continued passivity that allows a sanctuary for criminals.




http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl ... 7708240374

How can you compare 2 parents with 8 kids living in the same apt. with 10 or more adluts living in an apt. That's okay, the bleeding heart types like this will be the first tossed aside by the illegals. Some folks still don't get it; the illegals want you gone and replaced; you are supporting your own demise...