Thread: Reciprocal Respect

Hello all,

I'm a UK citizen who has followed this illegal immigration debate in the US with interest as it has caused many heated discussions in my home - as my girlfriend is Mexican! (Please no curled lips, hissing or booing as she’s a really nice person with no desire to illegally migrate to the US). I'd just like to put some views across as I see them from a non-US citizen stand point but also as a person who has heard and seen the Mexican side of the story.

First of all - the fence - If we didn't already have the English Channel then I'm sure we'd all be petitioning our government to dig one! Don't understand why you don't already have a fence - common sense to me! However, even with a 21 mile stretch of water between us and the froggy garlic munchers (i.e. the French (no disrespect intended)) we still have a lot of illegal immigration into the UK. To be perfectly honest I think we need some illegal immigration to keep our costs down but our economy couldn’t cope with uncontrolled immigration – as I imagine nether can yours.

Whilst I respect and understand the need for controlled immigration into the US (if fact I don’t understand why some people can’t see the plain logic) I can also understand why some Mexicans have a total lack of respect for US immigration laws leading them not to give a damn about working illegally in the US.

Indeed I feel that US citizens, such as your good selves, really cannot expect the Mexicans to have any respect for US laws when the US Government takes such a repressive and overbearing attitude towards sovereign affairs in Mexico. Would you respect the laws of a country whose government continually told you what you can and cannot do within your own country? See this story as an example;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4971416.stm

So the Mexican government attempts to take an enlightened approach to drugs legislation (well current policies haven’t exactly stamped out the use of drugs have they and the Dutch society hasn’t collapsed into anarchy as of yet) but the US government says “NO” because it will encourage US citizens to visit Mexico to take drugs. Now, I would say that is up to the Mexicans to decide what happens in their own country and perhaps up to individual adult US citizens to decide whether or not they want to go to Mexico and smoke a few joints free from worries of prosecution. Why does the US government feel justified in getting so involved in the law making process of another country? Is not the Mexican government democratically elected by the Mexican people? Does Uncle Sam feel that the Mexicans are perhaps not mature or intelligent enough to make their own decisions and therefore need what amounts to parental guidance on the matter of law making?

The above story is just one example of how the US Government is continually getting involved in Mexican sovereign affairs which, arguably quite rightly, agitates Mexicans. How many of you US citizens would be happy with a foreign power telling you what you can and cannot do in your own country – I seem to remember some bossy little island in Europe (naming no names!) telling the people of the thirteen colonies what they could and couldn’t do and look what that lead to (no hard feelings eh!?)!

I’ve travelled extensively in Mexico and had many people smugly tell me (thinking I was from the US (I don’t have bad teeth and neither am I boring!)) how they always skip the border to find work when they need the money and explained that they have no respect for US law because the US Government has no respect for their laws. What I’m trying to say is that if the US Government showed a little respect towards the rights of Mexicans to make their own decisions then perhaps Mexicans would show some reciprocal respect for US immigration laws. I’m not saying that this would stop illegal immigration but it may just make Mexicans understand why many US citizens, again quite rightly in my opinion, get so annoyed with illegal immigration.

God Bless America, Viva Mexico and God Save the Queen!

Great article. However annoyed is an understatement. We're angry!!

Jolly well put.

I totally agree.....however, knowing how "foxy" Vincente is, I would not put it past him to have used this drug approval as a chess match. I personally believe he never intended to approve the drug use. He knows how much $ USA puts into fighting drugs, and stating he would sign this into law, HE KNEW would send the US into a fit. When we responded the way he knew we would, he in turn backed off, now able to use that as a bargaining chip in the immigration debate. He is now able to say he did as we wished, now "make those folks legal", able to send billions back to his country and keeping Mexicans from causing a mutiny against him. Pretty smart for a man that can't run a country worth a damn.

How about President Fox of Mexico respecting his people enough to give them jobs?

How about President Fox of Mexico respecting his people enough NOT to rip them off, like every other third world corrupt leader.

How about President Fox of Mexico respecting his people enough to GIVE THEM EVERYTHING THEY HAVE TO COME ILLEGALY TO MY COUNTRY TO GET?

How about 20million Mexicans respecting an international border?

How about learning what Mexican laws do to foreigners in Mexico?

They get free medical care, don't pay car insurnace, drive down wages, hike up insurance costs, get free educations for their "anchor babies", vote illegaly-AND WE ARE RACIST? All these free gifts and WE? are the racists?

Fix your own country's immigration problems before you fix ours.

Please don't feel that I was trying to solve your immigration problems - I know I have no right to attempt to do that as it’s not my country. I was just trying to put a point of view across. Free speech and all that!

I totally understand how "angry" some US citizens get with illegal immigration. As I mentioned we have the same problems in the UK - albeit perhaps not to the same extent anymore!

Poster above, yes I understand that it may well have been a bargaining chip but why should what happens in Mexico make the US Government bite so readily?

Originally Posted by ronny

Jolly well put.

I totally agree.....however, knowing how "foxy" Vincente is, I would not put it past him to have used this drug approval as a chess match. I personally believe he never intended to approve the drug use. He knows how much $ USA puts into fighting drugs, and stating he would sign this into law, HE KNEW would send the US into a fit. When we responded the way he knew we would, he in turn backed off, now able to use that as a bargaining chip in the immigration debate. He is now able to say he did as we wished, now "make those folks legal", able to send billions back to his country and keeping Mexicans from causing a mutiny against him. Pretty smart for a man that can't run a country worth a damn.

Ditto

Hypocrisy-
Interesting opinion, always good to see more than one point of view.

Ronny-
good call, I wouldnt have pegged Fox to be that smart, but thats an interesting take on it.



I wondered how that was gonna play out.

I had often wondered why we didnt create a "Feel Good Bill" and create feel good drugs, and tax the crap out of them. Tons of money for our government, to spend on things like fixing illegal immigration. And would even put some of those nasty drug dealers out of business!

Hypocrisy. First Welcome to the Forum.

Hypocrisy wrote:

Whilst I respect and understand the need for controlled immigration into the US (if fact I don’t understand why some people can’t see the plain logic) I can also understand why some Mexicans have a total lack of respect for US immigration laws leading them not to give a damn about working illegally in the US.

Indeed I feel that US citizens, such as your good selves, really cannot expect the Mexicans to have any respect for US laws when the US Government takes such a repressive and overbearing attitude towards sovereign affairs in Mexico. Would you respect the laws of a country whose government continually told you what you can and cannot do within your own country? See this story as an example;

I'm not sure if the problem with Mexican coming here illegally is because we don't respect their laws.

If we meddle in their affairs, they more than make up it for by meddling in ours. President Fox pretty much directs the actions of his army of immigrants he has stationed in our Country through various organizations such as La Raza. He has operatives in most arenas that matter to Latinos.

As for the drug story example, yes you are right. We were surprised as well that our President said something about Mexico's stand on drugs. You are also right that there is still a lot of drug use and Amsterdam did not descend into the abyss.

Mexico's stand on drugs is the least of our problems and is getting the most focus. Mexico suffers from chronic failure to launch. Most of the Latino billionaires live in Mexico. Why? Because Mexico does not tax the rich. They tax the little guy making $3.00/hr. So naturally they don't collect enough taxes to make any infrastructure improvements.

They (Mexico) have some serious fiscal problems and instead of fixing them they paint America as the bad guys who stole their land. It is for that reason they don't pay any attention to our laws. They feel this is their land and they should not have to have permission to be on it.

I think all western countries are having problems. I read an article this morning about how the BNP wants to restore Britian to an all while society like it was in 1948. They called Muslims wicked.

But just like you, I am coming in at the middle of the story. I don't live in Britain so I can't possibly understand the comments of the BNP. I don't agree, but who am I to criticize. I think the citizens are doing the best they can with the leaders we have elected.

We are all getting kicked in the butt with this global economy, which is just economy for the rich. Our jobs have been shipped off shore and we are left scrambling for the scraps.

I wish I had a great solution, but I don't. We are just trying to get 11 million illegal immigrants out of here the best we can, just like you.

I was going to mention the Mexican opinions on the "land" issue but wasn't brave enough!

Oh yeah I realise that Mexico has some serious problems with the rich ruling the roost - Carlos Slim third richest guy in the world coming from a second world country like Mexico doesn't sit right with me!

I think I should change my name to 'cynical', since I always wonder what is really behind a news story.

Now why would Mexico threaten such a bill - because it seems that is what it really was? They backed down too easily and it was too public.

Why would this President get so upset about it. The number of Americans who would cross the border to do a little drugs would be miniscule, really, compared to the tons that come across daily. Those that come across are the drugs that are harming America. What some might 'do' while in Mexico is nothing.

So why did our President get so 'tough' on this. It is the only thing he has been tough on with Fox since his election.



Was it just so the PResident could act tough? In light of his stand on illegals, the American people are very upset with him and his close relationship with Fox.



If he really wanted to get tough, he would tell Fox to crack down on the drug trade and get really tough when the Mexican Army comes across our borders, firing on Border Patrol, while escorting drug runners.

So, I say smoke and mirrors - much ado about nothing.

The scary question is - what did Fox get in return for his role in this charade????