Thread: Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) was handcuffed by federal police Monday after refusing

I've never said, thought or posted that everyone who supports illegal immigrant amnesty is a "member of a drug cartel". I've posted they're on the take with the drug cartels. It's really sad, pathetic really, that you don't even see let alone understand that and a shame that you would make such opposing declarations of your own on this subject. It's also very curious.

Originally Posted by Judy

I've never said, thought or posted that everyone who supports illegal immigrant amnesty is a "member of a drug cartel". I've posted they're on the take with the drug cartels. It's really sad, pathetic really, that you don't even see let alone understand that and a shame that you would make such opposing declarations of your own on this subject. It's also very curious.

Illegal immigration is a complex issue and to reduce it to something as simple as 'everyone who supports amnesty is in league with a drug cartel' is just not reality based. Just because I don't support your position doesn't make my comments "very curious" as you said. If you're implying that I am now somehow in league with the drug cartels, you're obsession on the issue has reached a new high. Now, in order to clarify your comment, please answer me this, how is my comment very curious?

Originally Posted by MW

Illegal immigration is a complex issue and to reduce it to something as simple as 'everyone who supports amnesty is in league with a drug cartel' is just not reality based. Just because I don't support your position doesn't make my comments "very curious" as you said. If you're implying that I am now somehow in league with the drug cartels, you're obsession on the issue has reached a new high. Now, in order to clarify your comment, please answer me this, how is my comment very curious?

I don't think Judy's blanket accusation about the drug cartels is enough of a problem to argue about. Organized crime is very much involved in illegal immigration and we need to be reminded of that. Anyone who supports or condones illegal immigration is in league with organized crime whether they know it or not. It does suggest a blanket accusation. It is not necessary to flesh out details.

Perhaps the confusion is the use of the term "drug cartels" which suggests that illegal immigration is nothing more that a part drug trafficking. But illegal immigration all by itself is a money maker for organized crime. The money that illegal immigrants send back to Latin America is said to go to relatives, but more likely it is what they owe to organized crime to pay for their presence here.

Originally Posted by MW

Illegal immigration is a complex issue and to reduce it to something as simple as 'everyone who supports amnesty is in league with a drug cartel' is just not reality based. Just because I don't support your position doesn't make my comments "very curious" as you said. If you're implying that I am now somehow in league with the drug cartels, you're obsession on the issue has reached a new high. Now, in order to clarify your comment, please answer me this, how is my comment very curious?

What is the "complex issue" of illegal immigration?

Originally Posted by Judy

What is the "complex issue" of illegal immigration?

Yeah, I don't see it as 'complex' either.

I don't even like that word. It is what our politicians use to describe something we want fixed and they don't want to fix.

If you mean there are many fingers in the pie of profits from illegal immigration. Of course there is.

That should not preclude the simple act of enforcing our laws and demanding they return home - or forcing them if they don't.

The solution is neither 'complex' nor complicated.

Enforce the laws we have on the books. Simply enforce the laws on the books. The very same laws they would punish the average citizen for breaking. Nothing more and nothing less.

Our so call 'complex' problem would be greatly diminished, if not eradicated quickly.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

I don't think Judy's blanket accusation about the drug cartels is enough of a problem to argue about. Organized crime is very much involved in illegal immigration and we need to be reminded of that. Anyone who supports or condones illegal immigration is in league with organized crime whether they know it or not. It does suggest a blanket accusation. It is not necessary to flesh out details.

Perhaps the confusion is the use of the term "drug cartels" which suggests that illegal immigration is nothing more that a part drug trafficking. But illegal immigration all by itself is a money maker for organized crime. The money that illegal immigrants send back to Latin America is said to go to relatives, but more likely it is what they owe to organized crime to pay for their presence here.

Exactly. And drug cartels control all the organized crime in these countries that depends on illegal trafficking across the US border.

Originally Posted by Judy

What is the "complex issue" of illegal immigration?

Illegal immigration is a truly complex and nuanced issue and there no single solution that will solve it. While there is a criminal aspect to it, that doesn't mean that everyone who participates in it or supports it has involvement in a drug cartel. Illegals come here for a variety of reasons. While some illegals do come here as active participants in drug cartels, that in no way defines them all. Same thing with amnesty supporters. Their reasons behind supporting amnesty is just as varied as the reasons illegals come here. And no, they're not all associated with drug cartels.

The Mexican drug cartels use illegal immigration as a cover to smuggle operatives and hard drugs into the United States, but the cartels aren't the primary reason behind illegal immigration, economics is.

The Mexican drug cartels are just another mafia type crime organization operating in the United States. Where is your concern over the Chinese mob, Russian mob, Italian mob, etc.? They too deal in drug trafficking, people smuggling, gun smuggling, black marketing, prostitution, and other illegal crimes. All of these groups modify democracies from within by introducing their illicit earnings into the legal economy. their businesses defeat the competition because, by counting on these illegal parallel markets, they can lower their prices. Mafia assets also participate in the financing of banking, construction and transportation sectors of the economy.

Originally Posted by MW

Illegal immigration is a truly complex and nuanced issue and there no single solution that will solve it. While there is a criminal aspect to it, that doesn't mean that everyone who participates in it or supports it has involvement in a drug cartel. Illegals come here for a variety of reasons. While some illegals do come here as active participants in drug cartels, that in no way defines them all. Same thing with amnesty supporters. Their reasons behind supporting amnesty is just as varied as the reasons illegals come here. And no, they're not all associated with drug cartels.

You are contradicting yourself. Yes, you say, "there is a criminal aspect to it" but then you say that amnesty supporters are "not all associated with drug cartels". It may not be a willful association, but they are most certainly applied to that end whether they know it or not.

Originally Posted by MW

The Mexican drug cartels use illegal immigration as a cover to smuggle operatives and hard drugs into the United States, but the cartels aren't the primary reason behind illegal immigration, economics is.

The Mexican drug cartels are just another mafia type crime organization operating in the United States. Where is your concern over the Chinese mob, Russian mob, Italian mob, etc.? They too deal in drug trafficking, people smuggling, gun smuggling, black marketing, prostitution, and other illegal crimes. All of these groups modify democracies from within by introducing their illicit earnings into the legal economy. their businesses defeat the competition because, by counting on these illegal parallel markets, they can lower their prices. Mafia assets also participate in the financing of banking, construction and transportation sectors of the economy.

You are the first person to focus on Mexican drug cartels. Nobody here said that this was strictly a problem out of Mexico. I think I set it straight when I generalized the issue to organized crime. Again,

Originally Posted by pkskyali

I don't think Judy's blanket accusation about the drug cartels is enough of a problem to argue about. Organized crime is very much involved in illegal immigration and we need to be reminded of that. Anyone who supports or condones illegal immigration is in league with organized crime whether they know it or not. It does suggest a blanket accusation. It is not necessary to flesh out details.

Perhaps the confusion is the use of the term "drug cartels" which suggests that illegal immigration is nothing more that a part drug trafficking. But illegal immigration all by itself is a money maker for organized crime. The money that illegal immigrants send back to Latin America is said to go to relatives, but more likely it is what they owe to organized crime to pay for their presence here.

I cite the Latin American example as characteristic, but even here do not focus on Mexico alone.

Originally Posted by MW

Illegal immigration is a truly complex and nuanced issue and there no single solution that will solve it. While there is a criminal aspect to it, that doesn't mean that everyone who participates in it or supports it has involvement in a drug cartel. Illegals come here for a variety of reasons. While some illegals do come here as active participants in drug cartels, that in no way defines them all. Same thing with amnesty supporters. Their reasons behind supporting amnesty is just as varied as the reasons illegals come here. And no, they're not all associated with drug cartels.

The Mexican drug cartels use illegal immigration as a cover to smuggle operatives and hard drugs into the United States, but the cartels aren't the primary reason behind illegal immigration, economics is.

The Mexican drug cartels are just another mafia type crime organization operating in the United States. Where is your concern over the Chinese mob, Russian mob, Italian mob, etc.? They too deal in drug trafficking, people smuggling, gun smuggling, black marketing, prostitution, and other illegal crimes. All of these groups modify democracies from within by introducing their illicit earnings into the legal economy. their businesses defeat the competition because, by counting on these illegal parallel markets, they can lower their prices. Mafia assets also participate in the financing of banking, construction and transportation sectors of the economy.

I never said anything about Mexico.

And I stand by my statement that all those at the meeting with ICE were there to try and obtain information about ICE's game plan to pass on to the drug cartels.

Originally Posted by Judy

I never said anything about Mexico.

And I stand by my statement that all those at the meeting with ICE were there to try and obtain information about ICE's game plan to pass on to the drug cartels.

That's fine, you believe what you want and I'll continue to believe as I do.

You believe they were there on fact gathering mission for the drug cartels and I believe there were there to whine, cry, demand, and put on a show for their supporters and constituents.