Thread: Results of 17th Amendment?

To what travesty are you referring? If you mean redistricting, I would suggest that you look at the previous gerrymander maintained for decades by the Democrats in Texas before you pass judgment. Payback is no fun for the recipient.

Please before you think partisan politics - don't - in my case.

I am/was a 3rd generation TExas Republican - believe me I remember when I thought my family was the only Republicans in TExas.

That wasn't a Democrat or REpublican post - it was a right or wrong post.

I am also well aware of many of the messes brought about by the Democratic Party. I am well aware of their previous gerrymandering. They had the reins and they went crazy with it -

That doesn't excuse what the Republicans did.

The 'recipients' that got messed around by this horror - was the entire state of Texas - our children and grandchildren.

If we don't stop thinking in terms of political parties and think in terms of right and wrong and terms of what is good for America we are lost.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

To what travesty are you referring? If you mean redistricting, I would suggest that you look at the previous gerrymander maintained for decades by the Democrats in Texas before you pass judgment. Payback is no fun for the recipient.

Please before you think partisan politics - don't - in my case.

I am/was a 3rd generation TExas Republican - believe me I remember when I thought my family was the only Republicans in TExas.

That wasn't a Democrat or REpublican post - it was a right or wrong post.

I am also well aware of many of the messes brought about by the Democratic Party. I am well aware of their previous gerrymandering. They had the reins and they went crazy with it -

That doesn't excuse what the Republicans did.

The 'recipients' that got messed around by this horror - was the entire state of Texas - our children and grandchildren.

If we don't stop thinking in terms of political parties and think in terms of right and wrong and terms of what is good for America we are lost.

Again, are you referring to redistricting? Do you think that the old distrcits were any more fair? Did you ever even look at the old map?

When the issue first arose and I first saw the republican districting map, I was also appalled. Then I saw the map that it replaced and nearly laughed myself silly. I am guessing that you are reacting to the media representation of redistricting and not the reality. I STRONGLY suggest that you look at the previous map that we operated under before passing judgment.

I don't guess I made myself clear.

I was appalled and well ware of what had been done to Texas by the Democrats.

That does not mean that I am going to condone the Republicans doing the same thing.

The right thing to do would have been to right the wrong of the previous 'redistrictors' and give Texans control of their own government. That was never their intent - nor was it their deeds.

The Republicans did the same despicable thing the Democrats had done.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

I don't guess I made myself clear.

I was appalled and well ware of what had been done to Texas by the Democrats.

That does not mean that I am going to condone the Republicans doing the same thing.

The right thing to do would have been to right the wrong of the previous 'redistrictors' and give Texans control of their own government. That was never their intent - nor was it their deeds.

The Republicans did the same despicable thing the Democrats had done.

Ah, okay. Well, then I would suggest that you couch your complaint so as to make clear that it is BOTH parties whose tactics you deplore. To accuse the Republicans of treachery for doing something that the Democrats had been doing in Texas since the Reconstruction comes off as disingenuous. Just my opinion, of course...

Ah, okay. Well, then I would suggest that you couch your complaint so as to make clear that it is BOTH parties whose tactics you deplore. To accuse the Republicans of treachery for doing something that the Democrats had been doing in Texas since the Reconstruction comes off as disingenuous. Just my opinion, of course...

No not disingenuous - and I am sorry if you thought I was. I use that word to imply someone is deliberately giving misinformation or half information.

I deplore what the Republicans did - they did a despicable thing - there is absolutely no reason to try to point out that others have done the same thing. It is evil enough to stand on its on.

It resulted in the legislature we have. This state legislature is not doing anything for the good of Texas.

I have heard two state legislators who are no longer there. One Democrat and one Republican. I have met both, but can't say I know them - do know family members of one very well. They both said almost the same thing after the 'redistricting'.

One was redistricted into a Republican district and lost, and the Republican resigned and didn't want to run again - although his seat was very safe -probably for as long as he wanted it.

They said that things in Austin now were so nasty that little could be done and they were saddened by that.


Since the distrust of Democrats is a lifelong thing and the treachery (or knowledge of the treachery) of Republicans is very recent, the wound is just newer -

The deed was bad enough and destructive enough on its own, and I did not for a moment think anyone could be upset with the truthfulness of the statement.

They had an opportunity to do the right thing and help TExas, instead they helped George Bush. The mantra I heard was "Texas elected George Bush so now we must put lawmakers in place that represents George Bush."

I thought at the time that lawmakers were supposed to represent TExans - not George Bush.

Again, a third generation Texas Republican and conservative -

Originally Posted by nntrixie

Ah, okay. Well, then I would suggest that you couch your complaint so as to make clear that it is BOTH parties whose tactics you deplore. To accuse the Republicans of treachery for doing something that the Democrats had been doing in Texas since the Reconstruction comes off as disingenuous. Just my opinion, of course...

No not disingenuous - and I am sorry if you thought I was. I use that word to imply someone is deliberately giving misinformation or half information.

I deplore what the Republicans did - they did a despicable thing - there is absolutely no reason to try to point out that others have done the same thing. It is evil enough to stand on its on.

It resulted in the legislature we have. This state legislature is not doing anything for the good of Texas.

I have heard two state legislators who are no longer there. One Democrat and one Republican. I have met both, but can't say I know them - do know family members of one very well. They both said almost the same thing after the 'redistricting'.

One was redistricted into a Republican district and lost, and the Republican resigned and didn't want to run again - although his seat was very safe -probably for as long as he wanted it.

They said that things in Austin now were so nasty that little could be done and they were saddened by that.


Since the distrust of Democrats is a lifelong thing and the treachery (or knowledge of the treachery) of Republicans is very recent, the wound is just newer -

The deed was bad enough and destructive enough on its own, and I did not for a moment think anyone could be upset with the truthfulness of the statement.

They had an opportunity to do the right thing and help TExas, instead they helped George Bush. The mantra I heard was "Texas elected George Bush so now we must put lawmakers in place that represents George Bush."

I thought at the time that lawmakers were supposed to represent TExans - not George Bush.

Again, a third generation Texas Republican and conservative -

Then again, what you are complaining about is business as usual. It's not one party or the other. It is the two-party system. Your reaction is exactly what they want. they keep us running back and forth, demonizing one party and then the other, electing the one party and then the other. If we had any gumption at all, we would outlaw the party system here in Texas and make every candidate run on his own merit and qualifications.

Then again, what you are complaining about is business as usual. It's not one party or the other. It is the two-party system. Your reaction is exactly what they want. they keep us running back and forth, demonizing one party and then the other, electing the one party and then the other. If we had any gumption at all, we would outlaw the party system here in Texas and make every candidate run on his own merit and qualifications.

It is probably time to put this thing to rest as you are reading things into my posts that aren't there.

I am not supporting any party. If I am more angry at the Republicans it is because they were 'my party', or as near as I had a party. Forgive me if I feel the ones I have supported sold me down the river.

Except for local offices, I have never voted for a Democrat (Republicans on a local level are fairly recent in rural Texas) - I did just stay home for the last two Pres. elections. I couldn't hold my nose long enough to vote for either of them.


My idea for the next election is to vote out everyone now in office unless they have stood up for years and said, let's enforce the laws.

This recent enlightenment of some seems a little suspect to me.

I am with you on the party system.

I would like to see open ballots - let anyone get on the ballot who is qualified to run - qualified by the US and State Constitution.

I would like to see finance reforms - real reforms.

I would like to see term limits.

I would like to see strict registration for voters, smaller precincts and paper ballots.

I would like to see many of the things returned to the states - such as education, law enforcement.

In 1956, I was in high school civics. Our Supt., who ran everything back then, taught us civics. He spent a lot of time showing us how the government worked - and yet, I never knew his political leanings.

He told us that year that secregation was coming and it was way past time for it. He said the people would have no problem with it. The problem, according to him, was that the federal government would use it as an excuse to take over our education system - and that would be the end of education.

He was right.

They used civil rights, crime, drugs, homeland 'security' , and now immigration to grab more and more power from the states.

One of the great lies is 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'

So now, please understand I have no love, respect, or loyalty to any political party or politician -

Originally Posted by patbrunz

Originally Posted by butterbean

Originally Posted by patbrunz

With the recent events in the Senate, are we witnessing the Senate being corrupt and being controlled by special interest groups as a result of the 17th amendment? Should the 17th amendment be repealed to make the Senate like the framers of the Constitution intended?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/750201/posts

OH, ITS THE FREE REPUBLIC CONNECTION. SHOULD WE BE HONEST OR PLAY DUMB? If I go there, I'll get banned- no matter what I say! If you dont love so-and-so, you are thru!

Umm. . . I have no clue what the heck you are talking about. I have no connection with freerepublic, I just found that link with a Google search while researching the 17th amendment and I thought it was well written. If there are issues with freerepublic, I apologize for offending anyone.

Pat- no its me thats sorry. I apologize because I was having a stupid sarcastic moment. I get carried away sometimes. Free Republic is a website where you really cant say whatever you want, or you get banned. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me.